Fighting for Themselves, Fighting for the Game

Ten Things I Think I Think

Two veterans, two directions: Antoine Winfield chose to retire after being released from the Seahawks, while the Saints kept Jonathan Vilma despite rumors that the health of his knee would put his job in danger.
Two veterans, two directions: Antoine Winfield chose to retire after being released from the Seahawks, while the Saints kept Jonathan Vilma despite rumors that the health of his knee would put his job in danger. (Elaine Thompson/AP :: Phelan Ebenhack/AP)

1. I think the roster moves that caught my eye this weekend included:

a. Linebacker Adrian Robinson joined his third team in 10 days Sunday. He was dealt from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia Aug. 22, then got cut by the Eagles Saturday, and claimed by Denver Sunday. Robinson should either be a special-teams staple, or a weekly decision whether he’s active for Denver.

b. The starter at quarterback for the last Vikings game (playoffs versus Green Bay) was Joe Webb. He made the team as one of five wide receivers.

c. Your favorite undrafted rookie free-agent, fullback Zach Line of the Vikings (thanks, Jenny Vrentas) looks like a Week 1 starter as Adrian Peterson’s personal protector. Follow along as Line chases his NFL dream all season.

d. Matt Simms, an absolute roster afterthought with the Jets, is one of their four quarterbacks this morning. Stay tuned, but son of Phil wowed the coaches with his 33-of-44 preseason finale against Philadelphia. “Quite honestly, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a player make the improvements he’s made,’’ said coach Rex Ryan.

e. One of the game’s best corners for the last decade-plus, Antoine Winfield, will retire instead of playing one more season, Seattle coach Pete Carroll said after the Seahawks released him. Terrific outside and slot corner; much more physical than one of the game’s smallest corners should have been.

f. Daniel Adongo, a rugby player the Colts are trying to turn into a pass rusher, signed with the Indianapolis practice squad Sunday. He’s a Kenyan, and played in the world’s best rugby league, in South Africa, before being coaxed into giving football a try earlier this summer.

g. Defensive lineman Austen Lane wrote that wonderful piece for The MMQB, What It’s Like To Get Whacked, after getting cut unexpectedly by the Jaguars in June. We promised you a part two. Lane, picked up by Kansas City when Jacksonville cut him, was waived by the Chiefs Saturday. We’ll see what happens in the coming days, and Lane will certainly write a part two soon.

h. Jonathan Vilma stuck on the Saints’ 53-man roster despite being hobbled by an August knee procedure. New Orleans kept six inside linebackers, which could be a nod toward accounting for the rehabbing Vilma.

i. Curtis Painter beat out David Carr at the Giants’ backup quarterback. Somebody’s got to sign Carr.

j. What a disaster the Eagles’ 2011 first-round firefighter, Danny Watkins, turned out to be. Good example of reaching for a guy who never really loved the game. Watkins never played football until he was 22.

k. Austin Collie’s future has to be in doubt after being cut by the Niners. He has a history of concussions.

l. Geno Smith’s two favorite receivers at West Virginia, Tavon Austin (of course) and Stedman Bailey, were two of five wideouts kept by the Rams.

m. The Bucs signed Lawrence Tynes to be their kicker, but he came down with a serious infection, MRSA, that is resistant to antibiotics. So Rian Lindell won the kicking job, and Tynes, trying to get healthy, is bitter the team put him on the non-football injury list rather than injured reserve. The non-football injury status means Tynes won’t have this year count toward his NFL pension. His wife, Amanda, tweeted that the Bucs informed Tynes of the designation via email. That didn’t go over well in the Tynes household.

n. Pat White was the fourth Washington quarterback kept. Seems excessive, until you realize White is a mobile left-handed quarterback, and can play the mobile left-handed quarterback the team faces in Week 1, Michael Vick, on the scout team this week.

o. The San Diego offensive line, in Philip Rivers’ 10th season, will be bookended by two new tackles: monstrous King Dunlap on the left and rookie D.J. Fluker on the right.

p. The Chargers chose not to keep veteran tackle Max Starks after he gave up three sacks in the preseason finale.

q. Lousiana Tech’s Ryan Allen, with a monster leg, beat out Zoltan Mesko to punt for the Patriots.

r. The Raiders kept two punters on the 53-man roster Saturday, and unable to scare up any interest in a trade for Chris Kluwe, waived him Sunday. The Oakland punter is youngster Marquette King, who, when I was at Raiders camp, was punting the ball at high as the ancient evergreens around the training camp fields in Napa, Calif. Kluwe wrote about fighting for your NFL life, and being a good person to your competition, for The MMQB last month.

s. I wrote about agent Joe Linta driving through a snowstorm to work out Southern Illinois linebacker Jayson DiManche, a very marginal prospect not invited to the Scouting Combine … while Linta was in the middle of negotiating the largest contract in NFL history for Joe Flacco. Linta signed DiManche. Kept saying DiManche was one of those classic players lost in the cracks, a guy who should have been drafted. DiManche got signed by Cincinnati after the draft, and that wasn’t a great place for a linebacker to sign, because the Bengals were stocked in the front seven. Well, DiManche made it. He was one of five linebackers (a thin class, meaning he’ll play special teams and probably some from scrimmage) kept by head coach Marvin Lewis.

Study Up

Everything you need to know about all 32 teams and their prospects for the 2013 season, courtesy of Andy Benoit.


You can also check out everything The MMQB learned on the road with our Postcards From Training Camp.

2. I think the most underrated roster move of the weekend was Denver placing desperately needed pass rusher Quanterus Smith on injured-reserve because he was slow to return to full speed after undergoing ACL surgery late last November. “The knee just never came back,’’ said John Elway. “He was favoring it the whole training camp.” Smith was the defensive end from Western Kentucky who had three sacks against the vaunted Alabama offensive line last season before tearing the ACL in a later game. Now this is what would worry me the most if I were John Fox approaching the Thursday night opener between his Broncos and the Ravens: Last season, his two best pass rushers, Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil, combined for 29.5 sacks, 26 additional quarterback hits and 89 hurries, according to Pro Football Focus. Dumervil has left for Baltimore in free agency and Miller, of course, is suspended for the first six games of the season. The four men who will start—presumably—Thursday night are Derek Wolfe and Robert Ayers at end and Nate Irving and Danny Trevathan at outside linebacker. Those four players combined for nine sacks, 17 hits and 26 hurries last year. Obviously, the best nickel rusher Denver has is free-agent signee Shaun Phillips (9.5-6-23), who should add some edge pressure. But he’s 32 and who knows what he has left. Fox told me in camp he’s confident he can develop a way to get pressure. We’ll see what he has up his sleeve Thursday. That’ll be a major storyline to the game.

3. I think it wasn’t a good weekend for bonus baby quarterbacks, and not just ones named Tebow. Five quarterbacks picked in the top 50 of the last seven drafts were cut: Vince Young and Matt Leinart (2006), Brady Quinn (2007) and Tim Tebow and Jimmy Clausen (2010). Brian Billick says picking a quarterback is no better than a 50-50 proposition between success and failure. Let’s see, based on the five drafts between 2006 and 2010. (It’s too early to make definitive judgments on quarterbacks in the league for two or fewer years.) Let’s look at the quarterbacks picked in the top two rounds from 2006 to 2010, and their fate:

draftqbs

Of the 21 quarterbacks drafted in the top two rounds of these five drafts, six are solid starters, and eight are out of football.

Let’s now cut it down to first-rounders only. Billick, it turns out, is on the money. If you don’t count Sanchez as a starter—and I don’t see how you can term him a starter right now—six of the 12 first-round picks over a five-year period are starting in the league. So it’s still a crapshoot. Six players in the first two rounds of the ’11 draft will be opening-day starters, but let’s see if Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder, among others, can stand the test of time.

ICYMI

Highlights from the last week at The MMQB:

A Lesson from the Inside
—Robert Klemko

Pay Us for the Preseason!
—Richard Sherman

The Fall Guy
—Don Banks

Decision Day Looms
—Jenny Vrentas

Your 2013 NFL Broadcast Guide
—Richard Deitsch

Welcome to Clowneyland
—Andy Staples

A Starter from the Start
—Andrew Brandt

Concussion Settlement: The Debate Resets
—Jenny Vrentas

No Pryor Restraint
—Jim Trotter

4. I think if there was any doubt the Panthers are shaping the roster in new GM Dave Gettleman’s image, here’s proof: Only one of the eight 2011 draft picks from the Marty Hurney regime is on Carolina’s active 53-man roster this morning. The last man standing from a two-year-old draft class is Cam Newton.

5. I think the Ravens will be a very interesting chemistry experiment. Has there ever been a Super Bowl team that changed seven defensive starters? This one will. Joe Flacco will have a new snapper, Gino Gradkowski, after the retirement of Matt Birk; and he’ll have two new targets in Dallas Clark and Brandon Stokley. I’m fascinated to see how different this team will be Thursday night in Denver.

6. I think the most daunting task of Week 1—even playing at home—would be Jeff Tuel (4-22 as a Washington State starter) trying to beat Tom Brady. But as coach Doug Marrone said Sunday, if the rehabbing E.J. Manuel (August knee surgery) can move well by Wednesday, the Bills obviously will start Manuel against the Patriots Sunday.

7. I think this is the one stat of the weekend that says the most about the Philadelphia Eagles, courtesy of beat man Reuben Frank of CSN Philadelphia, after they waived 2011 first-round pick Danny Watkins: The Eagles drafted 94 players between 2003 and 2012, and four of those 94 made the Pro Bowl. Maybe that’s the big reason why Andy Reid wanted so badly to divest himself of personnel duties in Kansas City. He just wasn’t very good at it in his last few years in Philadelphia.

8. I think I got to thinking when I saw the Colin Kaepernick/Russell Wilson EA Sports/Madden commercial, the one that has little Colin and little Russell training in weird ways to be NFL quarterbacks: A year ago today, people had barely heard of these guys. If you don’t think the NFL can invent stars out of whole cloth, look at the story of the second- and third-round picks who might own the future of the quarterback position. It’s amazing how fast things change in the NFL.

9. I think The New York Times has made a smart hire in retaining Scott Fujita as a regular correspondent. Fujita’s first column (I’m guessing his take on the settlement between the league and the 4,500 players over head trauma) will appear this week. The reason it’s a smart hire is that Fujita’s one of those players who always saw every side of the game—from the league’s perspective, the union’s perspective and the player’s perspective. That, plus he can write a sentence. Looking forward to reading what he has to say regularly. He’s also writing for FOXsports.com, including this gem on what cutdown day is really like, including the memory of a teammate throwing a chair when he heard he was about to be cut.

10. I think these are my non-football thoughts of the week:

a. Welcome to the world, Taylor Mattingly Eisen. The third child and first daughter of Rich and Suzy Shuster Eisen came into the world Friday. And yes, the middle name is for the first baseman Rich has sort of a thing for. And Mattingly knows. Rich believes it’s not the first time someone has named a child for him.

b. Saw a cool indie film over the weekend, In a World, written by and starring Lake Bell. Never thought I’d find the dog-eat-dog world of voice-overing making a good film, and I never knew Lake Bell before Saturday. But the movie’s good, and she’s a star.

c. The Red Sox have a 5.5-game American League East lead with 24 games to play. They wouldn’t be fixing to break hearts from Millinocket to Woonsocket, would they?

d. I hate the one-game Wild Card in baseball. It devalues the 162-game season. Having said that, a sudden-death playoff game in the National League Central, with Cincinnati playing at either Pittsburgh or St. Louis, will be pretty dramatic. And that’s how it’s shaping up.

Talk Back

Have a question or comment for Peter? Email him at talkback@themmqb.com and it might be included in Tuesday's mailbag.

e. I want Miguel Cabrera to get healthy, fast. I want him to win two straight Triple Crowns.

f. So … are you actually trying to convince me that Teddy Bridgewater is better than my alma mater’s Tyler Tettleton? Is that what you’re trying to say?

g. One request about Week 1 of the college football season: Can we wait a few more games—one or two at least, please—before saying Jadaveon Clowney has blown the No. 1 pick in a draft that is 36 weeks away? Thank you. Clowney, by the way, is tops on Andy Staples’ draft board.

h. Coffeenerdness: Sunday marked the last three-espresso-shot day of the season. From now on, it’s a minimum of nine per Sunday. Let the all-nighters begin next Sunday for this column.

i. Beernerdness: I have no idea what it means to be a Double Imperial IPA, but I do know it tastes very good—a classic IPA. Had one the other night: Calalyst Double IPA, by Backlash Beer Company in Holyoke, Mass., and if it hadn’t been so lethal (8.5 percent alcohol), I’d have had more than two.

j. For those saying, “How can you pick Robert Griffin III to be the Comeback Player of the Year?’’ (Which I did.) He played through the end of the season, then had knee surgery. So he actually played the 2012 season. A couple of things. There are no rules for the Associated Press voters for postseason awards (I have one of those votes) concerning the Comeback Player. A player can be coming back from major surgery, or from a lousy year the previous season. And there is precedent for voting for a player who gets hurt late in the previous year. In 2012, Adrian Peterson got 17.5 of 50 votes for Comeback Player, suffered his injury in the second-to-last game of the 2011 Vikings season.

k. Now for all the rest of my picks … I accept all over-ripe tomatoes, right in the forehead.

l. Good luck in surgery, Jack Bowers. You’re in good hands.

The Adieu Haiku

Long U.S. nightmare?
Over. Next 20 Sundays
Are football Sundays.

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135 comments
epste696
epste696

Comment on the format (for the entire site) now that it's been 1+ months.  Looks like it was designed for the under 10 or over 80 crowd.  The large pictures and large boxes and large print give me a headache.  I still log on to read MMQB, but I've given up on the rest.

poeboy
poeboy

PETER-- I do believe somebody just turned off the switch.. I have a building with vapor lights and they take 20 to 25 minutes to reset. They still have not explained what happened. Since The Super Dome has opened, it has hosted NFL, NBA, AAA baseball, NCAA and high school football and basketball, Monster Trucks, Circus', BMX, Conventions.. The lights going out has NEVER happened before. Besides, if it had been a relay or transformer, the lights would have been out a lot longer. It is not crazy or farfetched that someone, basically, threw the breaker and immediately turned it back on. The lights go out and it takes 20-25 minutes to reset. Just enough time to prevent a blow out and NFL ratings disaster. Like I said, there has not been an explanation of what happened.  

CharlieCharnigo
CharlieCharnigo

"That, by the way, might be the silliest thing I’ve heard a player say in a long, long time. And that encompasses a lot of silliness. Lewis said he had no facts to back up his accusation, made in the NFL Films’ America’s Game show, which will be shown tonight on NFL Network. “But,’’ Lewis says on the show, “you cannot tell me somebody wasn't sitting there and when they say, ‘The Ravens [are] about to blow them out. Man, we better do something.’ … “ Lewis doesn't need advice from me, but he should have stopped at, “I’m not going to accuse nobody of nothing.”....Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the 1958 NFL Championship Game...not that the Greatest Game Ever Played was important to the NFL or anything...but in the '58 game late in the game the TV cable broke...so the entire country was not going to see the end of the game...then...well waddya know...some "person" runs onto the field and causes a delay in the game and the cable is fixed. Yea...the NFL would NEVER ever do something like that. Oh and it was and is widely speculated that that "person" was an employee of the NFL offices in NYC. 

timohuatl
timohuatl

9 espresso shots on a Sunday? That can only mean it's the Niner's year! You made the wrong pick, Peter. San Francisco will take home the trophy!

But seriously, you obviously know the game better than most, including myself, but if I may isolate just one part of your selection results, I'll bet my decision-making metric is pretty good.

MischaFleishman
MischaFleishman

Can someone please consider Johnny Jolly as comeback player of the year? The dude has been out of the league for 3 years, two of those years spent in jail.  He isn't in one of the glamorous positions in football, DT or LDE in a 3/4, but the dude got his life straightened out, made it back to the NFL, and made a 53 man roster at the age of 30.  If Michael Vick can win Comeback Player of the Year, why is nobody evening considering Jolly as a candidate?  They both did wrong, they both may have been subject to the culture they grew up in, and struggled to escape their past, but if we can heroize a man who murdered animals, why can't we do the same for a man who had an addiction to codeine?

I know Jolly won't win the award, I don't think he should, because his impact to his team is far less than a star QB or RB or CB even, but I think that he should at least be mentioned as a possible candidate, because he offers more as a hero figure and role model than a player coming off a torn ACL does.  Maybe Jolly will be a candidate for the Ed Block courage award? Probably not though.

TZT
TZT

Did Peter actually mention the Chargers?  Hell must have froze over.

DjangoZeaman
DjangoZeaman

Peter - any job that requires you drink that much caffeine is probably not a healthy job to have. It's a massively different scale, but in a column all about players hurting their long term health in order to play football I couldn't help but notice your own willingness to hurt yourself for your job.

The truth is that we glorify over-working and working to the point of injuring our health. No matter the profession.

JackLandon
JackLandon

re:  Pat White making the 'Skins squad.  Keep in mind that RGIII is coming off major knee surgery and has seen no game action AND Kirk Cousins missed most of the pre-season with a sprained foot.  I would say that right now White, in addition to being Vick in practice this week, is also insurance.  Give them a couple weeks of good health from Griffin and Cousins and either White or Grossman will likely be released.  Mpst likely White. 

NeedARealGM
NeedARealGM

I have a really hard time not only with this story but with the notion that grown men voluntarily playing a violent sport for millions of dollars were somehow duped into thinking that there wouldn't be a price to pay physically down the road? Now Peter King very blindly attaches a sympathy card to the picture by including an ALS sufferer as the poster boy for this entire mess.  It is an insult pure and simple.  I lost my father to ALS and I've been involved in the ongoing fight for dollars to support research and I can tell you it has nothing to do with concussions, anyone that says it does is preaching junk science for personal gain.  It is very sad to see the condition of Kevin Turner and having gone through this with my Dad, he is facing a slow decline to a point where his muscles will no longer serve his purposes and he will die.  What Peter King doesn't point out is that ALS is a slow decline and death of all nerve cells that deliver messages from the brain to the muscles and researchers do not know why this occurs, but they've narrowed the scope to include heredity (1 in 10 cases), gene mutation, chemical imbalance of glutamate, and abnormal handling of proteins in the gene cells that become toxic.  The irony of ALS, the brain continues to function at 100 percent normal levels so the person becomes trapped in their functionless body but have a fully functioning brain to the very end.  To suggest that ALS is triggered by brain trauma is reckless and not supported by fact.  This is nothing more than an attempt to gain sympathy for a cause and I'm not buying it.  These players have earned big dollars during a brief window of opportunity, they no longer have the ability to earn those big dollars and most of them never planned ahead....this is nothing more than an attempt to hold the league hostage and extort more money to now bail out a majority of former players that are living in poverty.  Have you seen any football players today, with everything we know about sports medicine, head trauma, etc., refusing to play in the NFL out of concern for their health in later years? No, they continue to line up and hope and pray that their name gets called on draft day just like they did 30 years ago....and just like they did all those years ago, most of today's players will not put money aside for their life after football and we will continue to see stories of former players that once were cheered by the masses now down and out and somehow we're supposed to feel sorry for them? How about the workers that paid into retirement funds all their working lives then hit 65 and found out their pensions were not funded and they have to keep working to put food on the table....that's a real story.  I say, how about these former players going to work or is that beneath them? The real headline should be, former NFL players successfully extort 765 million dollars from NFL.

Paul Sousa
Paul Sousa

non football thoughts - one of the reasons they went to the one game wild card is to value winning the division.  There were seasons in which NYY and/or  Bos and/or Tampa clinched their spots and it was obvious they were trying to get the first round matchup of their choice by fielding an MLB team of September callus.

scBlais
scBlais

"Good example of reaching for a guy who never really loved the game. Watkins never played football until he was 22."

I hope you have some greater inside knowledge off his love of the game other than the age he started playing it.  If that is what your basing it on, then you really are becoming a crackpot.

k15
k15

I dont see how Watkins was a reach?  he was listed on every expert list as a "good" pick.  Sometimes these guys just arent good.  He was lost in Philly.

jsteppling
jsteppling

too soon to give up on danny watkins. Philly was not the right place. Now, maybe he does wash out....but miami is going to sign him and i bet he sticks. He was too good at baylor.

FeliciaFitzgerald
FeliciaFitzgerald

I'm having a tough time sympathizing with any former NFL player who gets a multi-million dollar settlement for any on-the-job injury - even if the NFL is a multi-billion dollar operation.

Compare this with industrial accidents in the fast food industry. McDonald's employees are far more likely to be seriously injured on the job (with serious burns happening almost daily worldwide). McDonald's is, of course, a much more profitable business than the NFL. However, McDonald's employees are grossly underpaid and get no medical benefits.

It's time to stop idolizing sports players and thinking it's OK for teams to give a contract of $275M for ten years to a single player. It's the fans that get $crewed in the end (Hello pre-season ticket that costs $300!)

BronzeBomber
BronzeBomber

Now that the concussion settlement is complete, can we all stop acting like players didn't know getting hit in the head was dangerous?

Mike26
Mike26

Re:  David Carr being signed.

He ceased to be a viable NFL QB by the end of his 3rd season and 150 sacks.  "Happy feet" in the pocket doesn't begin to describe him.

MarcieMargotti
MarcieMargotti

Thank you Peter King for your support of the cause for a cure for ALS. I lost my dad to ALS in 2006. (Marcie Trembulak Margotti)

Cornerss
Cornerss

whats inflation take that  $765 million spread over 20 years? This might as well have just been a loan for the NFL teams, they didn't learn anything from it. I would imagine just jersey sales eclipse that  number in a short time.

Mark20
Mark20

"I hate the one-game Wild Card in baseball. It devalues the 162-game season." Well, the only thing that could "devalue" a 162 game season, is a 162 game season. Ludicrous.

RonAglund
RonAglund

I think the most telling and sad part of this is the NFL will be paying about 200 million to the lawyers. If you have ALS you are capped at 5mil, Parkinson's 4mil, and Alzheimer and Dementia 3mil these are all max amounts and most won't receive near that.

...but the lawyers will get $200 million dollars...just for filing and representing the players....what's wrong here.

A handful of men will receive more than a 1/3 the amount going to a bunch of men with ALS, Alzherimers, etc ($75 mil goes to testing) to treat all these conditions. The rest will be spent on houses, expensive cars, etc...

ShifterKart
ShifterKart

"thinking about this man and how important it was to him that he provide for his family, that his children get the college education they deserve.”

The Turners were doing well before KT played pro ball. I am sure his kids would have gone to college regardless. (I lived in the town he was from, Prattville, Alabama, same HS etc.). Anyone in the US can get financial aid or Pell grants... They knew the risk they were taking just as drivers know their risk in racing.While I am not unsympathetic to the injured athletes, It seems to me it is like an Army Ranger suing the Gov. because they got wounded. Both know the risk and love what they do. not buying it myself, same as people who over spent and wanted a bailout because they could not pay for their house and maxed out their home loan as opposed to living within their means.

Thanks.

C-Diddy
C-Diddy

An old school New England liberal siding with management?  The apocalypse is upon us.

gary7
gary7

Where's the Peter King Challenge this year can't find it, he made me a ton of money by going against his picks

Piedra
Piedra

The math doesn't add to me. 685 million dollars for  4,500 players each one gets $152,000. If 171 get diagnosed Parkinson they will run out of money.

.

shingen
shingen

What a surprise, Peter King is carrying water for the NFL on the concussion lawsuit. 

timabuttle
timabuttle

Good Morning Peter. Normally I don't read items related to legal issues, but I read your column this morning about the settlement between the NFL and players regarding injuries. Great job. Kevin Turner is someone you root for and I agree that this settlement is best for everyone. I feel it is important for players to get help now rather than waiting years from now for help. Keep up the great work. Love the new format. Peace

Richard Long
Richard Long

The Raiders really tried to trade Kluwe?  A punter who failed to win the job for two teams in the past two years?  In the NFL, you never spend a draft pick on a punter, much less one that is on a decline.  Also, surprised Peter didn't note the Raiders whiff on Tyler Bray. For a team in cap he11 and in desperate need of good drafts, to cut your 4th round pick is pretty awful.  Raiders faithful who think Reggie is the answer, you may be asking the wrong question. 

JeffWBrown
JeffWBrown

OMG.  Peter King mentioned the Panthers in a column.  The world is ending.

slkinsey
slkinsey

I noted with interest the specific mentions of payouts for those who suffer from ALS and Parkinson's Disease, which seems to indicate an implied causative relationship.  I suppose it's possible I missed this somewhere along the way, but is there any solid statistical analysis showing that former NFL players suffer from ALS and Parkinson's Disease at higher rates that comparable segments of the general population?  Higher rates of Parkinsonism as a result of chronic traumatic encephalopathy makes some sense to me, so I wouldn't be surprised to see that, but I don't believe there any link has been established between ALS and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (or any other trauma).

DaveinPA
DaveinPA

@FeliciaFitzgerald  The example you gave of the contract of "$275M for ten years to a single player" is in baseball, not football. You're talking about the Alex Rodriguez contract. There is no contract in the NFL that is the same as Rodriguez's contract. By the way, in the NFL, contracts are not guaranteed; only their singing bonus is guaranteed.

Otherwise, I agree with your main point. :-)

Benjamin5
Benjamin5

@BronzeBomber so true   I mean what happened to being accountable for the choices one makes and assumption of risk?

MadDoser
MadDoser

@Mark20 Speak for yourself.  Some of us enjoy the whole 162 baseball season.

FeliciaFitzgerald
FeliciaFitzgerald

@RonAglund Why are you complaining about the injustice of paying lawyers $200M but no the injustice of paying NFL players (who BTW are all 1%-ers) millions of $$$ for potentially on-the-job injuries.

A construction worker that loses an arm will get a $10K settlement if s/he's lucky.

People need to get a grip...

LoriSandoval
LoriSandoval

@RonAglund The alternative to working on a contingency basis, where they only get paid if they win or settle successfully, is for the plaintiffs themselves to pay the legal fees as they go along.  In the latter case, the deep pockets of large corporate entities, who can afford to stretch out the litigation process until the plaintiffs are bankrupt, means that alot of people who deserved justice would be denied it.  Not fair, but reality.

Mike26
Mike26

@RonAglund 200 million IN ADDITION to the $$ going to the players will be paid separately to lawyers by the NFL. 

mystafugee
mystafugee

@C-Diddy he's always sided with management which is why he gets access.  Not saying it's right but that's how you gotta play the game with the NFL (see Playmakers and ESPN).

Mike26
Mike26

@Piedra The details are scant but all PK mentioned were maximums - no minimums.  Not everyone will receive the maximum, obviously.

Mike26
Mike26

@JeffWBrown The Panthers have been scraping the bottom of the NFL for years now.  Perhaps winning a few more games would earn more mention?

BrownRecluse
BrownRecluse

@slkinsey

Incorrect, CTE can cause Parkinson-like, or ALS-like, or Alzhemier's like disease manifestations, based on where most of the abnormal protein aggregates from the trauma (substantia-nigra- Parkinsons, frontal cortex, diffuse- Alzheimers).  TDP43,  an abnormal protein, is found in ALS as well as people with CTE who develop ALS (Kevin Turner).

Mike26
Mike26

@mystafugee @C-Diddy mysta:  That's how you play the game with ANY large corporation - it's NOT exclusive to the NFL.

a52wkhi
a52wkhi

But that doesnt mean that they develop ALS.

a52wkhi
a52wkhi

Read all that. Not convinced. Mckee's sample size was only 12, laughably small. What's more, other cases of hers included victims of accidental gunshot while cleaning his gun and another victim dying from a high speed police chase. Even worse for your argument, Mckee concedes..quoting her.."CTE is a neuropathologically distinct" from ALS.

BrownRecluse
BrownRecluse

Looks like you have already failed. I'll help slightly and then stop wasting my time.

Step 1: Google "CTE and ALS." 

The first hit, the wikipedia article on CTE, mentions the link between ALS and CTE and the research performed on it by McKee's group in Boston.  (Reference #59)

Step 2: Using Pubmed, you can search for several articles, done by McKee's group and others. 

Step 3: Read the literature and make your own conclusions.  You will also need to read about TDP43 in ALS for things to make sense.

I'm sure you will offer the same clumsy causality argument, but the actual contention is that CTE is associated with an ALS-like clinical picture (much like CTE and Alzheimer's-like disease and CTE and Parkinson's-like disease), in some players, Kevin Turner being the most high profile case. 

a52wkhi
a52wkhi

Try as I might, I still can't find ANY evidence that CTE causes ALS. Please provide evidence for your claim.

BrownRecluse
BrownRecluse

@a52wkhi Tell that to Kevin Turner- a guy who had to retire early due to head trauma then develops ALS.  I'm sure he cares whether you think it's causation or correlation. The NFL certainly didn't, and gave him the highest payout of any of the implicated illnesses (5M).

I'm a pathologist who has followed the story and the medical literature since Dr. Bennet Omalu wrote up his first case of the late Mike Webster having CTE.  I've made my own conclusions.  I suggest you do the same, then get back to me.

a52wkhi
a52wkhi

It's the old rule...correlation is not causation.

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