The Mess In Miami

What to make of the Richie Incognito-Jonathan Martin situation with the Miami Dolphins? The NFL needs to get a handle on hazing, for starters, and readers hold nothing back in letting their voices on the matter be heard

We don’t know the news yet out of Green Bay, though Aaron Rodgers appeared to suffer a serious left shoulder injury early in the Green Bay Packers’ loss to the Chicago Bears on Monday night. “He has a shoulder injury,’’ said coach Mike McCarthy after the game. “They want to run more tests.’’

If Rodgers has to miss time, the division and conference races will be hugely affected. Backup Seneca Wallace looked tentative and uncomfortable against the Bears. The Packers, Bears and Lions are tied atop the NFC North at 5-3. Jay Cutler is due back to the Bears this week from a groin injury. Matthew Stafford is healthy in Detroit. So the Packers could go from a prohibitive division favorite one day to playoff long-shots the next. One thing’s for sure: Green Bay needs to put a claim in for quarterback Matt Flynn, who was waived by the Bills on Monday.

But my column today, instead of focusing on the uncertainty of the Rodgers diagnosis, will turn south, to Florida, to the story of the moment—the Richie Incognito/Jonathan Martin saga.

* * *

Richie Incognito (Damian Strohmeyer/SI)
Starting left guard Richie Incognito has been indefinitely suspended by the Dolphins for what has been deemed as conduct detrimental to the team. (Damian Strohmeyer/SI)

Richie Incognito, the starting left guard of the Miami Dolphins, played alongside Jonathan Martin, the starting left tackle, for a year and a half, before Martin left the team eight days ago. Understand the importance of the relationship between a guard and tackle who play alongside each other: They must understand each other’s movements, each other’s strengths, each other’s weaknesses. I remember covering the New York Giants for four years in the eighties, and Billy Ard, a guard for the team, once told me: “The guys alongside you, the tackle and the center, they’re your brothers. In the game, they’re more important than your brothers. For you to survive, it’s up to them.”

A band of brothers. We hear that a lot. In the military, in football, in many walks of life. What I don’t understand, in this Incognito-Martin dispute, is how one brother can pick up the phone and call another brother and say what Incognito said to Martin, in what was reported Monday by ESPN. Please, if you can’t stand rough language, skip over the next paragraph. I am only using it, censored as much as I can, to show you how brother Incognito talked to brother Martin after knowing him for a year.

The only way to make this real is to show you the reality. If you don’t want to read what Incognito said to Martin, please skip the next paragraph:

“Hey, what’s up, you half n—– piece of s—. I saw you on Twitter. You been training 10 weeks. [I want to] s— in your f—— mouth. [I’m going to] slap your f—— mouth … You’re still a rookie. I’ll kill you.”

Jonathan Martin (Wilfredo Lee/AP)
Jonathan Martin left the Dolphins last week after an incident at the team facility. (Wilfredo Lee/AP)

I have been around players, and the hazing rituals for rookies. I have not known it to stretch into second seasons, which apparently it did with Martin, at least by Incognito. And this one seems particularly harsh. My question is: Why should hazing of any kind exist in the NFL?

Hazing in the NFL reminds me a bit of fighting in the NHL. Some fans of hockey, and NHL insiders, want fighting banned. I’ve wondered: Other than satisfying base interests of some fans, what good does fighting serve? Why is it in the game? I’d ask the same thing here. No one minds the first-round pick being on donut duty all season—bringing four dozen donuts to practice one or two days a week is not hazing; that’s being a high-priced delivery boy. Fine. Dressing funny? Fine too. But I start getting creeped out when rookies get tied to the goal post and get their heads shaved, or get stripped naked. How, exactly, does that build camaraderie? No one’s ever been able to give me an answer on that one.

I think the NFL—in the same way it banned all bounties after the New Orleans Saints’ scandal—must think about banning anything that reeks of hazing. Just because this tradition has been handed down doesn’t make it smart, or right. You can’t convince me the league would be worse off without even mild hazing. I need a player to stand up and shout me down on this, and tell me why it’s necessary, why it’s good for chemistry. I don’t see it.

* * *

I wanted to give the scores of you who wrote me on this topic the chance to be heard in my regular mailbag, so let’s head over to Page 2 and dive in.

.
1 2NEXT VIEW AS A SINGLE PAGE
154 comments
jhgr1167
jhgr1167

This is not about hazing or bullying or any of the sissy-lily-livered-hide behind closed door approach that the media has portrayed this incident as.Professional football is a microcosm of society.Brutality is prevalent-it is a fabric that our culture is built on.Football is entertainment, it’s live, it’s real, it’s mano a mano, it’s graceful, it’s passionate, it’s skillful,it’s complicated, it’s teamwork, it’s communication, and so much more, and it’s also extremely brutal with hits, sacks, headshots and brutal language; the norm in the trenches.Don’t act like we haven’t seen, experienced, or heard it before; television can’t disguise everything.We can’t as a society say that we accept one element of this game and not accept the other.You don’t have to like what was allegedly said in various voice-mails and texts but you do have to accept that this is a repercussion of the violence that we’ve come to enjoy in our air-conditioned living rooms on Sunday afternoons that Roger Goodell and the 32 owners so deliciously serve to us likecattle at our weekly feeding trough’s.You “NFL Insiders” are faux-insiders if you continue to report that you haven’t heard language like this- (I coached High School Football and it was prevalent at that level) .You insiders will soon lose all credibility with me and the rest of the real football fans if you don’t quit acting like this is abnormal behavior and language.If you want to effect a change – then change it by writing the truth and the truth is that YOU HAVE HEARD THIS BEFORE!Change is good for all of us but change must come from the inside out – change won’t happen “outside-in” and most certainly won’t happen until you write truthfully about how prevalent this is.Not just in football but in society in general; on construction sites, in the workplace, in school classrooms, in music, in rap, in movies, in the military, and everywhere else that people communicate with each other.Don’t deny that you haven’t heard this before!

2warrenshapiro
2warrenshapiro

I have read this column often as a Canadian who probably doesn't understand the NFL culture like a native would (MMQB)

All over the column, I read that situations should be dealt with in house, pay your dues and the coach should have had a handle on it. When are men like Peter King going to be men and accept that the NFL is not a world that should be allowed to operate in a vacuum. You guys are horrible. All of you. You teach the wrong thing to kids about honor and respect when you hide behind words like team. When the chips fall the wrong way with public sentiment - you say it went to far.  The idea that this football game is so valuable to the identity of people that it is above reproach is the same principle that brings down many famous institutions throughout history. All I can say is that sports culture is prving to be more and more pathetic and the money that funds it should be outed as money going to thugs and criminals. We need to start going after all of the corporate sponsors becvause until the money stops flowing, the NFL and all the paparazzi that report and pontificate on it will think they are able to operate with impunity.

Nathan16
Nathan16

I'm reminded that this is the same organization with the same upper management that asked Dez Bryant in an interview if his mother was a prostitute. If the GM thinks that is acceptable, why wouldn't they consider this behavior from Incognito acceptable too?

prince43
prince43

Can the NFL deal w/more than one issue at a time?  Do we have to wait until PED mess and all other issues are resolved before addressing  this issue?

prince43
prince43

Just a continuation of the "ESPN/ Facebook/ Twitter/ fast food/ no attention span society........  Complicated issues and investigations take time to be done properly.  Why do we as a society always feel we are entitled to a resolution within 48 hours of a story breaking?  This is a complicated issue that will take more than ten minutes to sort out.  Put down the I phone and have some patience.  

Serena
Serena

Seriously is this really the biggest issue the NFL is facing? Let's just sweep the rampant PED use and head injuries under the carpet and focus on what amounts to some school yard bullying. 

Good to see everyone has their priorities in order

DavePierson
DavePierson

Bullying people/players into giving up money, tradition or not, needs to stop, and that really is the biggest issue with this story. Exposing "boy's club talk" and acting like it either shouldn't or doesn't exist, is naive. Incognito is an immature angry racist sometimes, yes, but there are times he's simply participating in the locker room culture, and even he couldn't deny he "loves" some of his black teammates like brothers. I've worked in a lot of "boy's clubs" from manual labor to retail to high tech, and if you get a bunch of like minded men working together, especially all around the same age...we become 13 year old boys who act like brothers behind closed doors, regardless of race. Sexism, racism, politics, etc... Wildly inappropriate jokes like we've all heard on TV or the radio or from a standup comedian, that we can only laugh about by ourselves or our best friend....and even for some at work.

Afiba
Afiba

When the Mafia tells a store owner to cough up or "we won't be responsible for what happens to you family", that's a crime.  How is this any different.  I'm sick and tired of professional sports asking for and getting all kinds of special treatment.  Charge Incognito, and if found guilty, lock him up.  If someone in your workplace told you to cough up $15,000 or else watch out for you and your family's health, you would be to the cops in a minute.

Phroggo
Phroggo

The buck stops with management.  Philbin is still ducking questions about what he knew and when he knew it.  There are a number of GMs in the league who wouldn't allow Incognito on their teams, despite his abilities.  Bill Walsh, tough coach, former boxer, successful coach and administrator, was well-known for not allowing hazing on his teams.

If there's a weak sister in this debacle, it's Dolphin management.


tundey
tundey

"Before we call in the local authorities, let’s see how the team and the league react."

This is how the Jerry Sandurskys of the world get away with it. In an age where every Tom, Dick and Harry has a gun and isn't afraid to use it at the slightest provocation, why should a threat of "I'll kill you" not be taken as a case for the police? Why do we have to wait for the team and league to react first? If Incognito was accused of raping his teammates in the locker room, are we going to wait for the league to react?

BudPhyte
BudPhyte

Why don't we listen more to sport's journalists?  Their insight is beyond question. Their standards are impeccable. They don't get caught up in overstatement or opportunism for self-aggrandizement. Their outrage and  self-rightness is always proportionate and tempered to the magnitude of the situation. 

KidHorn
KidHorn

Peter's initial reaction to everything is to take the side of the NFL. He'll take that side until a lot of others have taken the other side and then make it sound like he was against the NFL the whole time. He'll never be the one to stick his neck out on an issue. He's too afraid of losing his cushy high paid job.

SpartanTarget
SpartanTarget

Funny, the "shaved heads" line made me think of teams like this year's Red Sox that have grown beards or taken on some other sign of solidarity. It's all voluntary. Someone says "Let's shave our heads" or "Let's grow beards" or "Let's all wear blue underwear" or something, and being a part of it is voluntary. In contrast to hazing, that seems like a real team-building activity, rather than something that essentially institutionalizes a cycle of bullying in a locker room.  

Richard65
Richard65

Just read about  Robert Champion and you will understand how dangerous this sort of hazing can become.

gyffesme
gyffesme

Hazing is stupid. It doesn't build chemistry, it automatically stigmatizes a person/group for no reason other than, "it was done to me." You haze me at your own risk, but Florio put it right when he countered the "Martin should've fought back" attitude with, "THIS ISN'T PRISON!" It's a multi-billion dollar work place and you shouldn't HAVE to fight back to keep your dignity.

mkk9772
mkk9772

Hazing is okay as long as it doesn't cross the line into being illegal or defaming the character of the one being hazed. There is nothing wrong with making the rookies carry the veteran's luggage or equipment for instance, it's just extra work being laid on the employee to demonstrate that they are not better than the team. If that rookie does something to demonstrate that he IS better than the team, then it's up to the coach to issue further discipline, such as benching the player for a series or a quarter or making them do situps or something. But once you start getting into tying people up, beating or causing physical pain, or causing public humiliation in front of one's peers (beyond the normal workplace discipline or either making the employee do more work or taking away work), there is no need for that and actually has a negative effect rather than the desired positive effect.

fatlarry
fatlarry

I say if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen this is an extreme sport with very intense players and almost no room for error.  Also its kinda funny to me how the media is jumping up and down condemning Incognito when it was all the rage and hilarious when Tim Tebow got forced to have a fryor tuck hair do. Clearly some people have what it takes to be an NFL player and some don't, and if you think this is the first time anyone has used a racial slur in the NFL WOW you are really lost, but hey only white people get call out for that its ok for everyone else just considered a joke well there you go ha ha

PurityPrydain
PurityPrydain

If Incognito was asked by the coaching staff to toughen Martin up, and Incognito was "toughening" him up the only way he knew how...   Incognito is the undisputed leader of the "O" line.   Martin wasn't able to stand the heat.  A lot of blame to go around and can't see who is ultimately responsible...  Lots of drama!

dwest42
dwest42

Is it possible that a US Marine Infantry Officer, could become an offensive line coach in the NFL, and give a "Code Red" order to a player directing him to "toughen up" and "bring into the fold" a newbie?  

Naw.  Not possible.  Hollywood has already done that with Jack Nicholson starring in "A Few Good Men."

Peter, please advise if your or your buddies ever engage in the following dialog with any  coaches:

“Did you order the code red?!”

“You are god damn right I did!”


OK
OK

"But more than that, I’d like to see the full weight of evidence come out, and I’d like to hear from the parties themselves."

BS.

As the NFL's Chief Spin Doctor out of New York Headquarters, you don't type a word without Master Goodell's Personal Approval and Direction. You're a Stenographer and Spin Doctor FOR the NFL, King. That's how you made it to New York. You obey Goodell. You work for Goodell. And Goodell can put your butt back on the sidelines of Ohio high school football games whenever Goodell deems your demotion profitable to him and the 32 owners.

OK
OK

Bury the Real Story until Tuesday, Peter, to Spin, Spin, Spin for The White Quarterback.

Lemme guess. Richie Incognito's Don in Brooklyn reached out to you Sunday and told you to ignore the story or you'd wind up in the East River and/or with parts of you spread throughout the Chris Christie Marshland of Jersey.

Shane Mac
Shane Mac

One thing I would like to know is if any of the coaches came up to the veteran Incognito and told him we have to find a way to toughen up his line mate, the soft-spoken Martin.  Try to get him more on the edge, bully him if you have to to the point of losing control and maybe he will develop some meanness and intimidation of his own.   Incognito, being more of a brute than an intellectual, perhaps took this as carte blanche to rain on the psyche of Johnathan Martin in any manner he chose.   It is not far from the realm of reality to suppose this.

JdJohnston
JdJohnston

It has only been two days, and I am already tired of this nonsense. I can't wait until we get back to real sports. Nothing bores me more than when two professional NFL millionaires get into a pissing match because one of them was saying mean things to the other one. It's the sexy topic of the week; Dez Bryant ostensibly having a temper tantrum on the sidelines was last week.

Let the silly, holier-than-thou replies towards my insensitivity to full-grown men acting like children commence ...

FredN
FredN

I am VERY glad to see this piece tonight after being so extremely disappointed in your article yesterday.  I debated whether or not to sign up to enable comments and decided to wait until most everyone else weighed in.
I'll start by stating that I am completely on the side of Jonathan Martin in this.  I didn't like the actions and words of Incognito in the first place but now, with even more info coming out, I am convinced this fellow needs counseling in a LARGE way.  (I don't agree that he should be kicked off the Dolphins or banned from the NFL.  Where is the opportunity to LEARN from big mistakes?)   The thing is, if I was aware enough of what had been going on with the nicknames and the other actions and words to belittle Jonathan Martin, how could you NOT have been?  You're the sports writer and I'm just a casual observer (and not even that big a fan of professional football anymore.
I almost hate to admit it, but I was really very disappointed in you.  Others have pointed out your use of the quote from Tucker about the "mentally weak" but that didn't bug me as much as your referring to Martin's reaction to his hazing as "wigging out".  That said to me, right away, that you, like too many others, tend to think of someone like Mr. Martin as "flighty" or "nervous" or, at best, a bit of a p***y and certainly not the kind of "MAN" that belongs in the NFL.  
I used to enjoy reading about your daughter and her athletic exploits and I immediately wondered yesterday what you would think of her being hazed the way Martin was?  What if she had called home, upset, because she sat at a dinner table with teammates and they all got up and left? How would it have made you feel to know that people were referring to her as "The Big Weird" and were, for all intents and purposes, ostracizing her?  
Mr. Martin has to live with these people for months on end and to have to put up with that kind of crap - not to mention being extorted out of hefty portions of his salary - is just very sad for me to even think about.  ( I guess that makes me a wimp too.)
You are my second favorite sports writer and I expected a LOT more out of you.  On most things you seem to be very smart but you dropped it on this one.  Martin may indeed have some emotional issues that he needs help with or he may simply be less secure than many NFL tough guys, but regardless, neither he nor anyone else deserves to be treated like less than a human being, and the culture of professional football, or sports in general, should not be an excuse for it.  It's one thing to make rookies carry the bags and get up sing silly songs at dinner but the actions of Incognito and the others should be an embarrassment to anyone who loves sports.
Thanks.  And thanks for taking another look at what you wrote and acknowledging [sort of] that you were missed this one.

bayman
bayman

Maybe you hadn't heard the voicemail, but you certainly had to know of Incognito's history.  The content of the voicemail may have been disgusting, but it was hardly surprising.

Fred24
Fred24

King: This is really not about hazing, it is totally in another quarter. Come on, TRY not to be PC as usual. The strangest thing is Martin ~supposedly~ didn't speak to no one (coach, friends, other players, union, agent, etc), but simply quit.

Also if other players knew about this, why didn't they intercede? This is a scenario of tough men, but even among them, it is human instinct to stand up and combat bullies. If anything, because they are sup[pose to be a TEAM with a common goal.

This is a very interesting case.

TK6
TK6

The thing no one seems to talk about is that the goal of an NFL team is (or should be) to win. Richie Incognito has never played on a winning team in the NFL. Incognito's behavior shows that he has little concern with winning, and the fact that teams he has played on have lost about twice as much as they have won should not surprise anyone. Martin was used to winning at Stanford. The antics of Incognito and others on an underachieving Miami team make it easy to see why Miami has had little success despite decent talent. This must have been frustrating for Martin. the fact that this happened with an inexperienced head coach is no surprise. Quality head coaches get the best out of all their players. Philbin looks like he is going back to the rank of coordinator.

tombarreras
tombarreras

"Before we call in the local authorities, let’s see how the team and the league react."

Sure, that worked great for the Catholic Church.

Onlyblogging
Onlyblogging

A brother of a brother-in-law of mine is mentally schizophrenic, permanently disabled, and homeless due to having been beaten up in high school by a bully.  The head of a 400 lb man is no less likely to suffer brain damage than the head of a smaller man (all other things being equal), but the size of these guys and how hard they can hit DOES make it more likely.  If incompetent Incognito did not realize the risk, fine!  Let him kill himself riding a motorcycle!  But why should Martin be forced take part in this risky behavior?  Because of some BS code made by bullies that force you to risk your health to satisfy people who don't know what being a real man is?  What if Martin had fought the jerk and it ended his career and chance at  normal life?  You'd probably all be saying that he obviously took the wrong path.

Guys and girls:  Children across this country are committing suicide because they are forced into having only one option - to stand up against impossible odds - and they choose to exit this ugly world.  Similar things go on throughout office and factory workplaces, although it's much more subtle and under the radar.  In the office, if a manager decides he doesn't want you around, there are no laws that keep him from placing you in a no-win situation and then firing you on the spot.  These actions also result in severe mental trauma including suicides and mass-murder.

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO STOP LOOKING DOWN OUR NOSES AT THE VICTIMS WHO DO THE RIGHT THING AND SHINE THE LIGHT OF DAY ON BULLYING BY GOING PUBLIC?  HOW ELSE CAN WE EXPECT THIS SICK BEHAVIOR TO GET CORRECTED AND REMOVED FROM OUR SOCIETY??

RayLangley
RayLangley

Just as many other people, I was bullied in middle school. There were some pretty painful moments growing up because I didn't want to fight. At one point I decided that it would never happen again. I had a match stick temper in high school and even into college because of it. It took fighting back to make certain it never happened again. I was certainly not afraid to fight someone bigger than me to make certain they thought twice about bullying me.  Win or lose you knew you had a fight on your hands. Was it the best response? No, probably not. But it was definitely healthier than waiting until I truly snapped. I ended up becoming a pretty decent wrestler and fighter because of it. Usually, most bully's are eventually put in there place. Sometimes it takes a little Napoleon to make them think twice, most of the time they are humiliated by their peers due to the fact that they were picking on someone half there size. How many big guys have said - you want to fight somebody hen fight me? My point is, I am certain nearly every NFL player has been on one side or the other of these scenarios. For many, it is what secretly drives them. I think of Georges St. Pierre when it comes to bullying. I bet there is still a part of him that would love to put the bullies that picked on him in their sad, pathetic place. Sadly, we can never stop bullying in middle schools - it's just part of growing up and learning how to defend yourself. That being said, I can understand why NFLers look at Martin as weak. Stand up and fight for yourself man. Even if you lose you gain respect. I don't know, I guess it comes down to how you feel about bullying. Fighting back made me stronger - and I still seethe in anger over the moments that I was humiliated in front of everyone because I didn't stand my ground. Incognito ultimately is one of the most disgusting POS on the planet because he continued these actions far into adulthood. There may be more to this story than I know. Maybe Johnathan did stand up for himself and it didn't stop anything. Richie came back worse and harder. Maybe Martin is gay and Incognito couldn't handle that fact. I don't know, but unfortunately I feel sorry for Mr. Martin because right now, t appears he never learned to stand up for himself. And I guess that is why the culture of the NFL views him as weak. 

Afiba
Afiba

@BudPhyte Yes, we love those East Coast dandies, don't we?

mkk9772
mkk9772

@fatlarry Here's an idea. How about instead of calling him a half n—– piece of s—, he tell him that he's off the team if he doesn't act right, follow team protocol and play the right way? You know, like every other employer or colleague in America would go about it.

Wombat
Wombat

@fatlarry Wow! You are as bad as Incognito! Your attitude of "it's ok because it has happened before" is asinine!  No one should have to put up with death threats or extortion as a normal part of their work life! Martin was in a no-win situation. If he fights Incognito he is in trouble with the NFL and the Dolphins plus he stirs up someone who is obviously psycho! If he tells the coaching staff they think him weak.  Bullying too often continues because the one being bullied feels that no one will  be on their side so they stay quiet... but calling this bullying is like calling Hitler a murderer. Technically it's correct but it doesn't do justice to the level of the crime. Get real!

Afiba
Afiba

@OK Nah, Peter's just an East Coast media dandy waiting to see which way the wind blows.

SpartanTarget
SpartanTarget

@OK You seem to have a ... problematic understanding of Roger Goodell's powers.

Fred24
Fred24

@bayman Incognito is a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal no doubt.

blynder
blynder

@Fred24 

There are lots of data on how people respond to being bullied, victimized, etc.  Martin's response is not unusual for someone who has been in a situation where they are attacked/victimized/etc.  Basically, people don't tell others for fear of further retribution, feeling inadequate and/or unsure of support.  People don't "stand up" to those hazers/bulliers for similar reasons - because the bully uses coercion, threats, humiliation, etc.  Also lots on data on why people do not intervene when something bad is happening (fear of being targeted themselves, thinking someone else is handling it, waiting for someone else to handle it, feeling unsafe to intervene, not knowing HOW to intervene, assuming the behavior must be 'ok' because authority is allowing it to happen, etc) - and that no one else in the organization said or did anything IF they were aware of it is pretty much standard for the research on bullying (in the school and in the workplace).  

gyffesme
gyffesme

@Fred24 That NOONE else on the team stood up and said, "WHAT THE HELL?" enrages me. They're all a bunch of pansies if none were able or willing to stand up next to Martin. What's the quote: "All that's needed for Evil to survive in the world is for good men to stand by and do nothing." That's what we're faced with here.

Fred24
Fred24

@tombarreras WTF the Catholic Church have to do with this mess. Control yourself.

Onlyblogging
Onlyblogging

@RayLangley Read my post above and then tell me your path is right for everyone. Also, we CAN create a culture where bullying is looked down upon, if we can get rid of the mentality that says "it's always going to happen".  Also, how many people (like you and me) learned to snap for their own protection and are now serving time in prison for it??  Even today, doesn't your level of rage scare you?

IT DOESN'T AND SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY!  LET'S STOP CRITICIZING THE "TADDLE TAILS".  THEY ARE OUR ONLY HOPE FOR CHANGE!

picklejuice
picklejuice

@Fred24 @tombarreras When the Catholic Church heard about the crimes of child molestation in their churches, they tried to handle it internally. When, many believe that the Catholic Church should have taken the evidence directly to the police. I believe he was implying that if there is criminal activity happening in the locker room, then the evidence of that should also be turned over to the police and not just handled internally.

RayLangley
RayLangley

@Onlyblogging @RayLangley I don't disagree with you. But we are still animals at the end of the day. And intelligence at that age does not go hand in hand. Today, no I am not afraid of my rage. I had friends how positively picked it out of me - if that makes sense. They teased me for my anger issues and embraced when I demonstrated control. It is what it is. I know what you are saying, in a perfect world bullying is unacceptable. But this isn't a perfect world and learning how to deal with people is ultimately what eventually defines success in almost any walk of life. Again, I would never defend Incognito, but I think we need teach people how to respond properly. 

Afiba
Afiba

@picklejuice @Fred24 @tombarreras Not just "many believe".  This is what the law explicitly requires.  This is not child molestation here but I fully agree the legal authorities should be involved, to see if any crimes have been committed.

Shane Mac
Shane Mac

@Fred24 @picklejuice @tombarreras I'm sure he did speak with his agent and parents about this through his time in Miami.  But the teams in the NFL, including Miami, have player councils that take up problems in the locker room and then speak to the head coach of the team.  One of the six players on this "leadership" council of the Dolphins is Richie Incognito.  Would you seek advice about harassment from the person harassing you?

Fred24
Fred24

@picklejuice @Fred24 @tombarreras I get your meaning. However, I do wonder why Martin didn't up this with so many people he could have before going 'public. In example his agent, coach,trainer, other players, union, etc. Does raise a lot of questions. 

RayLangley
RayLangley

@Onlyblogging @RayLangley I honestly don't know if your belief or my belief is the best response. I have often felt one of the big reasons we have to deal with school shootings is because kids aren't allowed to defend themselves. Today, a kid gets in a fight and both kids face expulsion. When I was in elementary school - kids were suspended if they got in a fight - no questions asked. However, if you wanted to put on boxing gloves and fight in the ring with the coach reffing - as long as you shook hands it was over. Worst case you walked away with a bloody nose and in many cases those kids became friends. And your rape comment is a bit out of context. Despite what Randy Thornhill, a leading evolutionary scientist on the subject, would have you think, rape is extremely rare in the animal kingdom. Practically unheard of among mammals other than humans. It is a pathetic life form that forces sex for procreation - which is what Thornhill argues. However, fighting and earning position within a species is nearly universal among most mammals. I agree that both are wrong, but from an evolutionary perspective, fighting for superiority has defined are our evolutionary history.

Onlyblogging
Onlyblogging

@RayLangley @Onlyblogging I'm glad you were able to get over it in the way that you did.  I do disagree with you about what proper response is.  Walking away and/or going public (as long as you are accurate and factual) needs to always be an acceptable option for anyone!

Otherwise, you are right.  We are indeed no better than the animals from which we supposedly evolved.  BTW - animals rape each other.  Does this need to be kept in silence also?  Of course you don't think so, but the connection is that walking away and/or going public have to be acceptable options in our society (as long as the truth is told).  Period.

I think Martin did the right thing and the smart thing, and I don't think he is weak.  Hell, he made it to the freakin NFL as a lineman!  After that he has to risk a debilitating injury by fighting an overgrown Neanderthal?  Not cool!

Newsletter