Scott Cunningham/Andy Lyons/Christian Petersen/Getty Images
Scott Cunningham/Andy Lyons/Christian Petersen/Getty Images

‘You’ve Got to Take One’

That's the advice of Mike Holmgren—Super Bowl-winning coach and a former team architect—to the QB-needy teams considering drafting a passer in May. Will the Texans, Jags, Browns, Bucs and Vikings listen? Plus, reader mail

RENTON, Wash. — Mike Holmgren has been where so many coaches and team architects are, 23 mornings before the 2014 NFL Draft. He has been wondering where his starting quarterback would come from. So it seemed logical to ask him Monday: Approaching a draft in which every quarterback is a question mark and there are better players all over the board, what do you do if you really need a quarterback?

“You’ve got to take one,” Holmgren said Monday over lunch here, a few long spirals from the Seahawks’ training facility.

“You’ve got to, unfortunately.”

In Green Bay in 1992, Holmgren had just gotten the job as Packers coach, and GM Ron Wolf wanted to trade for a backup quarterback who drank too much, and Wolf asked Holmgren what he thought of Brett Favre. Wolf pulled the trigger, but Holmgren approved the trade, because he didn’t think he had a quarterback of the future on his roster. When Holmgren went to Seattle in 1999, he had a choice of either drafting a quarterback of the future or dealing for one, and he chose to trade for Matt Hasselbeck, who led Seattle to multiple playoff berths. In 2010, when he went to Cleveland as club president, Holmgren oversaw the drafting of Colt McCoy and Brandon Weeden, neither of whom played well enough to win the job—and both are gone now.

“Somebody in that group can play, I feel sure of that,” Holmgren said of the quarterbacks in the 2014 draft class. “You list them, you evaluate them, you discuss them as a scouting and coaching group, and you pick one. Now—and this is very, very important—once he’s with you, you never, ever let anyone believe he’s not the right guy, not the quarterback of the future. In the building, obviously, that’s a given. But in public too. Every time you talk about him, he’s your guy.

Brett Favre and Mike Holmgren on the cover of the Jan. 27, 1997, edition of SI. (Walter Iooss, Jr./SI)
Brett Favre and Mike Holmgren on the cover of the Jan. 27, 1997, edition of SI. (Walter Iooss, Jr./SI)

“In Green Bay, remember when Brett was really struggling, and I held a coaches’ meeting and took a vote on who should start—Favre or [Mark] Brunell? We were in the coaches’ meeting, and Favre had done something stupid the last game, and Brunell came in and played by the numbers and played well. And I said, ‘We’re going to go around the room and tell me what you think. [Quarterbacks coach] Steve Mariucci wanted Favre. A lot of the other coaches, good football coaches, voted for Brunell. I said thanks. I went down, thought about it, called [Favre] in the next morning, told him he was the guy. I told him, ‘We’re either going to the top of the mountain together or we’re going to the dumpster together. But we’re in this together.’ That’s what you have to do. I’m convinced of it. Absolutely convinced.

“But what that can mean, however, and it’s scary, is it can mean if it fails, you fail, and you lose your job. But that’s part of it. You’ve got to be willing to pick a guy and be behind him. Coach your a– off, fix what needs to be fixed, and you might not know what you have after one year or two years, but you’ll know after three years. You’ve got to give him a real chance.”

Words to the wise—for Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Minnesota.

Now for your email:

UCONN HAS A BAD GRAD RATE. With the caveat of being a proud, 3rd-generation Boston College alum out of the way, I think it’s great that you’re a proud Nutmegger as well as Ohio University alum. That said, I think you should list the other first-place finish for the UConn men’s basketball team: the worst six-year graduation rate of the entire field of 64 schools. Casting aspersions at BC with such pettiness is way below your usual high standard of writing. Hat-tip to the Boston Globe on the stat.

—P.J. McNealy, Boston College, Class of ’90

That’s a good point, P.J. UConn should be ashamed of its graduation rate. It’s a valid statistic to point out. But UConn has been allowed to field a team to play college basketball and played well enough in 2011 and 2014 to win the national championship. That gives the men’s team four national titles in the past 15 years. And the women’s team has nine national titles in the past two decades. It is amazing to me that there are not conferences tripping over themselves to retain the best combined college basketball programs over the past 15 years and make them members. As far as the slap at BC: I’m simply pointing out that the ACC chose BC over UConn, and Boston College in recent history has been a bad basketball team and UConn the best in America—not to mention the UConn women winning all the time. You don’t think it’s logical to ask whether the ACC fathers wonder if they messed up excluding UConn?

Jerry Jones and Tony Romo have only won one playoff game together. (James D Smith/AP)
Jerry Jones and Tony Romo have only won one playoff game together. (James D Smith/AP)

ANOTHER JERRY JONES CRITIC CHECKS IN. It feels like Jerry Jones has received a pass from the media in how he runs his team. At what point do we view him as Al Davis 2.0? He is surviving on the three rings from the 1990s. How much of that was his influence? It seems he’s made multiple missteps while not garnering the same outrage/disbelief of moves, similar to Dan Snyder.

—DT, San Diego

I hear the criticism of Jones all the time, DT, and you would too if you lived in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Jones is a marked man by many in the area. There’s no way he should be treated as the latter-day Al Davis, though. For the last decade of Davis’ life, the Raiders were a total mess, consistently in the bottom three or five teams in football. Look at each franchise since 2003: Dallas has had two losing seasons and made the playoffs four times. Oakland hasn’t had a winning season in the last 11 years, and hasn’t made the playoffs once. I understand the frustration with Jones—I would be frustrated too, if I were a Cowboys’ fan and my team could never get over the hump. 

ON HALL OF FAME CRITERIA. Sincere condolences on the loss of your brother. Less importantly, a thought popped into my head the other day. Does the committee ever discuss ex-players’ other contributions to the game in deciding Hall of Fame worthiness? I’m thinking of those like Pat Summerall, Kurt Warner, probably many others, who were good players in their own right, then went on to have careers which contributed to the game in other ways. Maybe some of the NFL office people like Gene Washington too. Anyway, not saying any of those specific examples are HOF worthy, but wondering if a person’s total contribution is considered, or do they have to make it in one particular aspect?

—Scott Peterson

Scott, we are asked to consider players for election to the Hall based solely on their playing careers. But I cannot tell you that when Dick LeBeau’s candidacy as a player came up several years ago that many in the room didn’t think of LeBeau’s impressive résumé as a defensive coordinator and how important he has been in some of the imaginative pass-rush schemes that have been copied by a lot of coaches on all levels of football. I believe similar consideration was given to John Madden when he came up for entry and we were asked to judge him as a coach only; Madden’s contributions to the game, through his broadcasting and his video game, paint a picture of one of the most significant figures in football in the last 50 years. Now, it’s different for contributors to the game. For those men, we’re asked to judge the whole of their contributions to the game.

I SEE IT DIFFERENTLY. Hey Peter, I really look forward to MMQB, even during the offseason. I was wondering about the Panthers, especially compared to other playoff teams like the Patriots and Broncos. It looks like they are content to play for third place in the NFC. Watching their offseason so far, it feels like they know they can’t compete with the talent level of the 49ers or Seahawks in 2014, so they’re looking at 2015. Is it possible a 12-4 team could basically surrender the next season simply because they know they have too many holes to fill?

—Gene, Charlotte, N.C.

TALK BACK

Got a question for Peter? Send it with your name and hometown to talkback@themmqb.com and it might be included in next Tuesday's mailbag.

I see why you’d think that way, and I agree that GM Dave Gettleman has been slow on the draw this offseason, particularly at wide receiver. But we tend to overrate what happens in March in the NFL. For years, Washington owner Dan Snyder was the king of free agency, and it never got him anything but crushing disappointment in the regular season. Gettleman had a good debut for the Panthers last year, and I think he deserves a chance to see if he is calling the right shots before we say the Panthers don’t have a chance this year. But I do concur that Carolina has had a poor offseason so far. 

THANKS. My favorite quote from Paul Bowles comes from The Sheltering Sky: “But because we don’t know, we get to think of life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens a certain number of times, and a very small number, really. How many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood, some afternoon that’s so deeply a part of your being that you can’t even conceive of your life without it? Perhaps four or five times more. Perhaps not even. How many more times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps twenty. And yet it all seems limitless.” Reminds me to take advantage when we can of all life has for us.

—Bradley

Wonderful, Bradley. Thank you for bringing that to my attention in this sobering week.

mmqb-end-slug-square

100 comments
TroyBrooks
TroyBrooks

Does anybody else find it odd that Holmgren is talking about drafting a quarterback to win when his success came from trading for good quarterbacks.  The quarterbacks he drafted were not successful for his teams.

parkbrav
parkbrav

I saw Johnny Football on the Gruden QB show on ESPN the other night and I've got to say I'm really impressed with Johnny's football IQ

el80ne
el80ne

Ironically, Holmgren couldn't have made a horrible decision there even if he had decided to go with Brunell. They might not have won a Super Bowl but Brunnel turned out to be a decent, perennial playoff caliber QB who was actually quite mobile early in his career. Certainly more so than Favre.


It wasn't like trying to decide whether to stick with Colt McCoy or go with Brandon Weeden where the only outcome would be awful and surely cost him his job.

In the first case the decision was already sort of predetermined because of Ted Thompson's decision to pursue those players and get them on his roster, even if he did consult Holmgren to ask him what he thought. In the 2nd those QBs were both Holmgren's decision alone, he owns them more than he gets credit for landing Favre. So his advice that 'you gotta just pick one' sort of rings a bit hollow there given his less than stellar talent evaluation skills when it came to QBs when he was the man in charge.

gary7
gary7

.“You’ve got to take one, unfortunately.”...........I like how these former coaches blame the QB's they have or had for their own inadequacies as a Head Coach, Lombardi won with Starr, Gibbs won with 3 that 2 either got hot for one game or one season, Ravens won with Dilfer, the list goes on and on, this just just sounds like the cook blaming the pans.

gary41
gary41

This whole article could have been about evaluating QB's given Holmgren's history.  There are a dozen or more unanswered Q's out there.....

unitcaptain11
unitcaptain11

It is impressive that Peter just got back from England, and rather than stay home in New York he flies out to interview Holmgren in the Seattle area.  He has a daughter in Seattle, so maybe that was part of the reason for the trip.  He could have just talked to Holmgren on the phone.  He should take some time off, especially after his loss.

CITADEL4U
CITADEL4U

According to John Madden, multiple super bowl winner, the great Oakland Raiders coach, manager & owner, Al Davis said this about the college draft, and players in general.  I paraphrase: Forget about quarterbacks, running backs and other positions.  Always draft the best Offensive Lineman available. Build your team behind them. Because, anyone can quarterback, or run behind a great offensive line.  You can even use some of them on defense.  NO matter how good you are at other positions, no one can win behind a sorry Offensive Line.    You have to be able to score, score, score, and score some more: to win.  That's the key to winning the Super Bowl.

bryon999
bryon999

It's not clear to me that the offensive line may not be more important than the QB, at least in terms of determining which QB is mediocre and which is good.  Certain QBs like Brady/Manning obviously excel with scrubs on the line, but for most QB's, the line is what makes them.

rousefred
rousefred

Am I the only who's noticed Peter King is starting to look a lot like George "The Animal" Steele?

manniefaces
manniefaces

So you feel one of the three can play. Yeah genius there folks. -.-

Taurus97
Taurus97

I agree unless the O-Line needs help. It makes sense to get a good blind side OT before drafting a QB  The last thing you need is to destroy a potential franchise QB by him ending up on his back and getting happy feet..

CobyPreimesberger
CobyPreimesberger

plus once again jaws showed how stupid he is, still saying he wouldn't take manziel in the first 3 rounds and his #2 quarterback, zach mettenberger, heck if mettenberger is drafted in the 1st rounds it would be a shock as he's likely a career back-up

Buck2185
Buck2185

Hi, Peter King here- I would like to remind all of you Favre bashers below that Brett was my first man crush before Tommy Brady. If you talk bad about either one, I will block you from this site......

bobg48burg
bobg48burg

Words to the wise?  From the guy that drafted McCoy AND Weeden?  TO CLEVELAND?  Thanks for the joke.

J Diddy
J Diddy

To me, if there isn't a can't miss QB you have to take the guy with the greatest potential. That has to be Manziel in this draft. And the thing that separates him, the thing his detractors dismiss completely, is he's the one guy in this draft who actually dominated at the collegiate level. He earned every major accolade a QB can earn outside of winning a national championship. 


IF he can produce 90% of what he did in college in the NFL, he'll be a heck of a NFL QB. IF he continues to get better and matches or exceeds what he did in college he'll be an MVP caliber QB. Why gamble on guys like Bortles, etc. who have the measurable but haven't done much with it up to this point. 

Bucky182
Bucky182

As much as I respect Mike Holmgren, no, nobody has to take anybody. That's the beauty of the draft - you can choose whoever is available. As a GM do I have to choose Johnny Manziel? No. Could I regret not choosing him five years down the road? Sure. But I can also pass on him and if he busts than I just dodged a major bullet for my team. Sorry, Mike, but you didn't have to choose Colt McCoy or Brandon Weeden.

Mike26
Mike26

Favre is a coach-killing QB if there ever was one.


Holmgren:  After keeping him just enough on the leash to win a title, headed west.

Sherman:  Fired because he couldn't/wouldn't reign in the mad bomber

McCarthy:  Fired Favre (er, he "retired") after too many head games about coming back

Mangini:  Traded for him and paid the price for him; not entirely Favre's fault but he played a major role (not to mention Textgate)

Childress:  Fired after Favre killed the golden opportunity for a SB title by "Brett being Brett"


(Not sure - has Favre gotten the HC fired yet at that HS he's coaching at?)


That's 3 coaches that lost their livelihoods due to Favre - Favre of the one title in 19 seasons and records on both the good side (consecutive games played) and bad side (all-time interceptions).   Sadly, I'll guarantee we'll see not more than one sentence and/or bullet point about this when it's time for PK and other writers to vote him into Canton.

Extra_Edge
Extra_Edge

@TroyBrooks He drafted and coached Hasselbeck while at GB in '98.  He also drafted Ty Detmer ('92 started for PHI, SFO, CLE, DET),  Mark Brunnell ('94 started fir JAX, WAS, NOR, NYJ).  

How many other coaches have produced 4 starting QB's in 7 years?

NoTTFan
NoTTFan

@el80ne it was Ron Wolf not Ted who was the GM of the packers when Holmgren was coach

Merv
Merv

@unitcaptain11  Visiting your Daughter after a family loss is not 'taking time off'?

gary7
gary7

@unitcaptain11  He also had time to start a rumor about Jedeveon Clowney blaming a anonymous GM that no doubt was a figment of his  imaginmation

CITADEL4U
CITADEL4U

@bryon999  See my comment above yours.  We agree and so did Al Davis and John Madden.

el80ne
el80ne

@Buck2185 block away buck. but don't get delusional. You're no king.

tomoatway1
tomoatway1

@bobg48burg  I didn't think McCoy was that bad..they should have gotten him more help instead of wasting picks on Weeden & Trent Richardson...I will never understand why guys like Weeden & Drew Henson who play pro baseball and then go to college are drafted highly..they are 28 year olds playing against 20 year olds in college and look very "meh" when they get to the NFL

Mike26
Mike26

@J Diddy  He led his teams to no division or conference titles and one BCS bowl.  He was a really good college player but dominant isn't the most accurate word to describe him.

Wombat
Wombat

@J Diddy  I don't think teams gamble on first round draft picks, (at least I hope they don't). If a player doesn't meet their needs then they should fin done that does. When you can get a Tom Brady as a seventh round pick why would you pick a question mark in the first round? There are no RGIII's or Andrew Luck's in this draft. Take the best player available in the first round and "gamble" on a QB later.

J Diddy
J Diddy

@Bucky182  I'm going to side with Holmgren on this one. The Browns, Raiders, Jags, etc. HAVE to draft a QB. Maybe not in the first round, but those organizations have massive holes at the QB position. Teams with top QBs go to Super Bowls. There are exceptions, but not many, and nothing about the cruddy teams in this years draft scream "we can win it all with marginal QB play!" 


He chose poorly with Wheeden and McCoy, but I definitely think he had to choose someone. It's easy for a fan to think they never needed those bums, but the reality is someone has to play QB and lead the team. The Browns don't have the luxury of being picky, because they stink right now, and they aren't going to get better until they find their QB. You take one this year, if he stinks, you take another one next year. Those are the breaks for bad teams, and if they are consistently have bad luck you replace the GM. I think the Browns are figuring that out. :)

Bucky182
Bucky182

@Mike26 Another guy you forgot was Glanville, which is funny because Glanville said if he had never traded Favre away he would have been coaching the Atlanta Falcons instead of riding a bus to away games at Portland State.

CobyPreimesberger
CobyPreimesberger

@Mike26  of course the int never shpuld've even happened, as the nfl after that game went with the oh were sorry there should've been a penalty called since he was hit below the knees

Phroggo
Phroggo

@Mike26  


Favre would have, no doubt, screwed up the one ring he's got if Holmgren didn't have him on such a tight leash.  Up to the end of his career, in his last NFC title game, he was still making rookie mistakes.


The interception he threw across his body into coverage in the middle of the field that cost the Vikes an opportunity to win in regulation was just the third stupid, rookie-type mistake he'd made on, and just prior to, that play.  Immediately after the Vike's timeout, he stepped into the huddle, becoming the twelfth man.  Knowing he'd just made a stupid mistake, he immediately signaled for another timeout.  Which, of course, is also against the rules and another stupid mistake.  So, in the span of about 30 seconds, Favre took the Vike's out of comfortable field goal range with two stupid maneuvers and gave up the ball with a third.

Bucky182
Bucky182

@Mike26 I would tend to disagree with your assessment. Has Favre been the All-American boy throughout his career? No, but has he killed every coach that came through town? Absolutely not. He was on those teams but by no means is he a coach killer.

Holmgren: Back-to-back Super Bowl appearances (one win) and started thinking about running his own team. It is no mystery Holmgren had one foot out the door in his final season in Green Bay. He made it loud and clear that he wanted a GM role and Green Bay would not give it to him. Favre didn't push him out the door. 

Rhodes: He should have never been hired in Green Bay in the first place.

Sherman: Started out pretty strong with Favre at the helm but in his last two years his teams became complacent and lacked big playmakers on defense. Not to mention Green Bay's offense was riddled with injuries in 2005. It was just time for Sherman to leave. At that point he had plateaued.

McCarthy: Did a heck of a job with Favre but with Thompson in town and wanting 'his' team it became apparent that the waiting game wasn't going to last much longer. Either you're in or you're out. Favre got traded and McCarthy won a Super Bowl. Not exactly killing the coach there.

Mangini: Put his chips all-in with Brett and started 8-3. Brett busts up his shoulder but played out the year anyway, limping to a 9-7 record. Sure, the injury didn't help but Mangini didn't sit him. That 1-4 finish wasn't all on Brett and that was a make or break year for Mangini anyway. Favre didn't help the cause but he certainly didn't kill the coach.

Childress: Favre singlehandedly got this guy an extension but because Childress was so in love with the thought of Favre being his quarterback he alienated the other 49 guys on the roster (minus Allen, Longwell, and Greenway). Chilress lost the locker room by his own doing. The Vikings threw Brett a ton of money and practically begged him to quarterback their team. That's not his fault. That was just utter stupidity on the part of Childress.  

unitcaptain11
unitcaptain11

@Merv   It is. I'm just generally hoping that Mr King can get some time off. 


el80ne
el80ne

@unitcaptain11 @CITADEL4UI wonder when Al said that. Because maybe the experience of drafting Robert Gallery #2 to be his blind side left tackle for the last decade turned out to be such a bitter and disheartening experience that he gave up on that philosophy.

J Diddy
J Diddy

@Mike26 See, here's the problem with the "championship" or ring mentality. Football is the consummate team sport. I suppose Dan Marino wasn't a dominate pro QB because he didn't win a Super Bowl? You can dominate your sport individually and not win championships in team sports. Football isn't golf or tennis, you can't do it alone.


Furthermore, do you even watch college football? Manziel was easily one of the top 3 (if not THE) most dominate players EACH of the last two years. I'd wager if you took a vote of defensive coordinators in college ball he'd be number one on a list of people they didn't want to face. "Really good" college football players don't put up the numbers he put up. The stats don't lie my friend, he was almost unstoppable in college, and unlike Clowney, he did it every season he played. (His numbers were better this year, and he didn't win the Heisman.) 


Say you don't like his character or whatever (and I won't argue with you there--he comes off as a total d-bag), but don't try to dismiss him as a "really good" player. Makes you look silly, not him, because he was maybe the best the last two years.

J Diddy
J Diddy

@Wombat What are you talking about? Teams gamble on first round picks all the time. Maybe more than they do any other round. It's played out over history, the first round is a boom or bust round (why experts will tell you a draft is "made" in rounds 2-5). You roll the dice on a guy who can potentially alter your franchise in the early first round, not the guys who are going to sure up your secondary. These teams drafting 1-15 need more than a little help and they know it.

Bucky182
Bucky182

@J Diddy @Bucky182 I can agree to a point but far too many teams have put a premium on picking a guy in the first three rounds and expecting him to walk in the door and be their savior from the get-go. Holmgren took a chance on McCoy and Weeden, I get that, but why don't these teams actually go out there and find themselves a serviceable veteran before throwing these kids (Weeden wasn't a kid) to the wolves? As highly touted as Michael Vick was, he sat behind Chris Chandler. Favre sat. Rodgers sat. Eli sort of sat. Steve Young sat. Steve McNair sat. Maybe there is a Russell Wilson in this draft but, at least on paper, this class of QBs probably needs to sit, if only for half a season. Holmgren didn't have a quarterback? Sure, that excuse applies but only to a certain point. He could have started Jason Campbell or some other serviceable backup before handing McCoy or Weeden the reigns. As a subpar team, you aren't doing these kids any favors just tossing them out there and expecting the world of them.

CobyPreimesberger
CobyPreimesberger

@Phroggo @Mike26  of course that play would've been overturned as dean blandino after the game went oh yeah brett was hit in the knees so a penalty should've been called for hitting below the waist

Mike26
Mike26

@Bucky182 @Mike26  Thanks for adding Rhodes - he was a disaster I had forgotten about - I give Brett only 50% of the blame there.  


Holmgren left just in time; Sherman couldn't reign him in; McCarthy booted him before things went bad; Childress and Mangini both lost their jobs with Brett at the helm.   For all the good old boy image that Favre and his BFF Bus Cook want to present, he still played very significant roles in the loss of employment of a majority of his coaches.   The only way to avoid being fired with Favre playing QB was to leave town or FIRE him first.   History shows that.

Mike26
Mike26

@el80ne @unitcaptain11 @CITADEL4U  Two things killed Gallery from being an all-pro LT:  1.  constantly-changing coaching staff and philosophies

2.  bad luck with injuries (never missed a game in college)

J Diddy
J Diddy

@Mike26 What "facts" aren't in his favor here? Really good and Heisman level are not the same thing. It's generally reserved for the best. Tell me about his numbers? How MANY less-than-spectacular games did he have? By my count, he had one bad game against LSU, and as you say, he was hurt. He had one other game where he didn't throw a TD pass (Ole Miss), but he hit nearly 80% of his passes, rushed for 2 TDs, and threw for over 300 yards. 


Throw out that LSU game and his numbers in their other three losses were: Over 70% completion, 10 passing TDs, 4 INTs, over 1,000 yards passing, 167 yards rushing and 1 TD. I'm sorry, but nothing there says he was even remotely average in those games. In fact, he was the best player on the field in two of their 4 losses, against the arguably the two best teams in the conference last year. (Alabama and Auburn)


You're simply grinding your axe. Quit armchair QBing and admit you don't have a clue what you're talking about in this instance. And calling me lazy when you haven't give a single fact to support any of your nonsense is the crux of the word.

Mike26
Mike26

@J Diddy @Mike26  I watched all but two games that he played at A&M.  He was a really good college player.  He deserved and won the Hesiman two years ago.  He got banged up and had several less-than-spectacular games this year - games his teams lost. You're far too sensitive about anything less than full worship of the player that is John Manziel.  It doesn't make one a "hater" - that's just a lazy response to facts that don't necessarily fall in Johnny's favor.

David2
David2

@J Diddy  Dominate is the verb, dominant is the adjective.  I can't believe how many folks incorrectly use the former for both purposes.  

J Diddy
J Diddy

@Mike26  And you seem to have a personal vendetta against the kid, the way you're spouting casual observations as an actual assessment of his ability. The facts say he was an outstanding/elite college football player. So you, sir, sound like a hater. :)


I don't care for Manziel on a general level. He comes off as arrogant and flaunts his talent and fame to no end. Plus, he beat the pants off of my favorite college football team in a bowl game. LOL But I can recognize a special football player when I see one, and he's definitely one.

Mike26
Mike26

You seem personally offended that I don't worship Johnny Football. Why? You sound like a Manzealot.

J Diddy
J Diddy

@Bucky182 Totally agree with you. There are lots of vets at the position who could manage a game. For every young player that thrives as a starter, there seem to be four who are completely ruined by being shoved into action too soon.

Mike26
Mike26

1. Stop posting from your phone.

2. Use at least SOME semblance of sentence and proper grammar

3. You can't overturn a play based on a uncalled penalty.

Phroggo
Phroggo

@Orange Crush


By wasting their time and money on the Favre fiasco, the Vikings set themselves back five years in QB development.  That's how you end up with guys like Ponder.  

Ellbow3894
Ellbow3894

@Bucky182 @Mike26  


Favre easily did enough to win the NFC championship game against the Saints when they had a bounty on his head. The skill players for the Vikings fumbled the ball away at within the Saint redzone at least 4 times if I remember correctly. The mistake at the end should have never been in play. At that point Favre was playing on basically a broken ankle. He would not have been able to suit up for the Super Bowl anyway...but he was second in the MVP voting and easily outplayed Brees in that game but his team let him down. Plus he was 40 years old (probably the best 40 year old player in the history of the NFL that season). Anything that he did at that point in his career was just icing on the cake as his legacy was already cemented by 2005.

Bucky182
Bucky182

@Mike26 @Bucky182 Believe me, I wasn't taking all the blame away from Brett when it came to those coaches. The role he played in what happened with coaches may be overstated to an extent but, you're right, he was on those teams nonetheless. Holmgren did get out in time but he did have a foot out the door the entire 1998 season. When it comes to Sherman, he gave Favre a lot of freedom on the field. But as a coach he simply plateaued. He wasn't going up and his players had already begun to lose faith in his leadership. 


In all honesty, when it comes to Childress, you could go both ways on that. Favre got the guy an extension, blew their chance at the Super Bowl, and headed back to Mississippi. He had no desire left to play in the NFL until $23 million was on the table, a greedy coach kept blowing up his phone, and three guys excused from camp went flying down to Hattiesburg. You can certainly blame Favre for part of Childress's demise but the guy alienated his entire team before the season even started. Childress lost that locker room and his job because of his love affair with Favre, not (just) because of Favre.

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