Learning to Fly Again

Ten Things I Think I Think

1. I think I would be surprised if we didn’t read the following headline on the web sometime late Tuesday afternoon: “NFL owners make progress on expanded playoffs.” My guess is a vote is unlikely but possible, and commissioner Roger Goodell wants to be sure he hears every ownership voice that wants to be heard before calling a vote on it. There’s no hurry, really, because the playoffs are almost assuredly not expanding until the 2015 season at the earliest. As league officials canvassed owners and club officials throughout the NFL over the past few months, they found very few negative voices about increasing the number of wild card teams per conference from two to three. One of the reasons is the increased TV exposure and ratings and ad revenue associated with two more playoff games. I expect the new format to include two valuable entities the league now does not have: Sunday night and Monday night games on wild card weekend, with six wild card games filling the weekend instead of the current four.

2. I think no one asked me (who ever does?), but I think 12 playoff teams is plenty, and 14 waters down the significance of making the postseason. And what’s to stop the league five years from now saying, “The ratings for wild card weekend are so boffo that we should go to 16.”

Another gem in Seattle? Between his NFL bloodlines, Texas pedigree and Pete Carroll's praise, Jeffcoat is a name to remember this summer. (Elaine Thompson/AP)
Another gem in Seattle? Between his NFL bloodlines, a Texas pedigree and Pete Carroll’s praise, Jeffcoat is a name to remember this summer. (Elaine Thompson/AP)

3. I think one of the players I’m anxious to follow in training camp this summer is undrafted free-agent defensive end Jackson Jeffcoat of the Seahawks. Surprisingly undrafted after a 33-start career at defensive end for Texas, Jim Jeffcoat’s son caught the eye of Pete Carroll at a weekend minicamp. He’ll have to be special to dent a very good defensive line, but anyone who accounts for 32 tackles for loss (19 non-sack tackles behind the line, 13 sacks) in that program could open eyes when the real practices start in July. “In the workouts he’s looked really good,” Carroll said Saturday. “He’s a really good athlete, he fits in athletically with the guys that play for us, same size and speed and all of that. He was very productive in college in a big program. So we’re anxious to see if he can push and fight for a spot here.”

4. I think this is why they paid you the big money, Dave Gettleman. The Panthers general manager has to decide what to do, if anything, about a long contract extension for star defensive end Greg Hardy, just 25 years old and in his prime, after Hardy’s run-in with a girlfriend and his temporary jailing … and being ordered to turn in 10 guns to authorities. That includes six semi-automatic weapons and three 12-gauge shotguns. Hardy’s girlfriend said he owns 25 to 30 weapons. I’m sure the Panthers are going to do their due diligence about Hardy’s cache of weapons, and investigate whether they want to go year-by-year with Hardy (franchising him) instead of showing the faith of a long-term contract and much guaranteed money. In addition, the judge in the case ordered Hardy to attend three Alcoholics Anonymous classes. This could be a very tough call for Gettleman, particularly if Hardy is cleared to play at the start of the season and tears up the NFC South as he did last year.

5. I think I loved this note from the Arizona Republic’s Paola Boivin: One former Arizona State quarterback, Brock Osweiler, interned this off-season for another former Arizona State quarterback, Andrew Walter, who is a candidate for U.S. Congress in Arizona. Walter played in the NFL. Osweiler backs up Peyton Manning now.

6. I think it must be nice to have Patrick Peterson for a friend. Peterson, the friend and mentor of fellow Cardinals defensive back Tyrann Mathieu, bought Mathieu a Rolex Presidential watch for his 22nd birthday the other day. List prices of said timepieces: One goes for $14,995; the bigger one, $26,995.

7. I think I love the fact that the Minnesota Park Board recognized the longtime impact of Minneapolis columnist Sid Hartman by naming a baseball field in north Minneapolis “Sid Hartman Field.” Hartman, who has been a sportswriter in the Twin Cities for 70 years, is still an impact player up there—and everywhere. “I didn’t see anyone in the mock drafts that had us taking Anthony Barr—except Sid,” Vikings coach Mike Zimmer told Minneapolis columnist Patrick Reusse the other day. Major League Baseball is refurbishing four baseball fields into fields of dreams in conjunction with the 2014 All-Star Game at Target Field in July, and it’s a wonderful thing that Hartman will live on for generations at the field that will bear his name.

8. I think this analysis from Pro Football Focus sheds tremendous light on the best-cornerback-in-football debate.

TALK BACK

Have a question or comment for Peter? Email him at talkback@themmqb.com and it might be included in Tuesday’s mailbag.

9. I think it probably isn’t going to be a huge factor in winning and losing this year, but I like the fact that Chicago GM Phil Emery got all eight of his draft picks signed in less than 100 hours after the final pick of round seven. Now that the picks are slotted so exactly since the advent of the new CBA in 2011, it’s counterproductive to waste any time haggling over this clause or that. Emery gave coach Marc Trestman his full complement of players, ready to go to work by last Wednesday. More GMs should follow that path. There’s simply no reason not to.

10. I think these are my non-football thoughts of the week:

a. After the bitter Montreal-Boston series, TSN’s Aaron Ward reported that Boston’s Milan Lucic said to two Canadiens, “I’m going to —-ing kill you next year.” That’s nice.

b. Two days later, in front of the press, Lucic said, “I’m not apologizing for what was said in the handshake line.” That’s nicer.

c. I want to hear what Lucic thinks on July 19. Not May 19. If it’s the same, that’s not a guy I’d want on my team. Ridiculous Irony of the Week: Lucic recently released a book entitled, Not Cool to Bully in School.

d. Still think the NHL’s handshake line is the best post-game tradition in sports.

e. Greatest thing in a newspaper I saw this week: the New York Post doing a story on New York lottery winner Cameron Finney, who won a lump sum payment of $7.4 million on a $20 million payout. According to the Post, Finney said, “I’m not going to change. I’ve seen many lottery shows and how people wasted their money. That’s not me. I won’t waste it. It will be here until I’m gone.” The story noted Finney plans to retire next week, will buy himself a Dodge Ram, then a house for his wife, then a Bentley. That’s what I call not changing when you win the lottery.

f. So long, Barbara Walters. For so long, her interviews were national events.

g. Somehow, in all the tributes she gets in the wake of her retirement at 84, I believe she might miss mine.

h. Coffeenerdness: So I’ve been working a bit with a nutritionist, and after studying my diet (or lack thereof), she said, “No more lattes.” The horror! We reached a bit of a truce there. I shan’t give up my favorite warm beverage, but I think I can handle three a week, with brewed Italian roast the rest of the time. We’ll see.

i. Beernerdness: Harpoon IPA, you’ve still got it. Had one the other day on an unseasonably warm evening in New York, and it’s as good as I remember.

j. Donald Sterling stories: Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

k. My thanks to the Live Sun Smart Foundation for the all-too-kind award at its annual gala the other night in Jersey City. Teri Festa, who lost her father to melanoma 22 years ago, has been at the forefront of an effort to educate the public about the dangers of the sun. As a two-time melanoma victim, I was honored to be a part of this year’s event. It’s truly important work, particularly to young people who too often don’t see the dangers of excessive exposure to the sun.

l. And my gratitude to a good and loyal friend, Adam Schefter, for introducing me at the benefit. Humbling words on a humbling evening.

m. Victor Cruz > Kid Cruz. The horse named after the Giants wide receiver finished 15 ¾ lengths back of California Chrome in the Preakness on Saturday.

The Adieu Haiku

Draft withdrawal sets in.

One hope I have this morning:

Mayock. Beach. St. Kitts.

mmqb-end-slug-square

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474 comments
liquidmuse3
liquidmuse3

Speaking of naiveté---the ark, Peyton? With all the animals two-by-two? We're taking this as truth? For a guy who prides himself on reasonable preparation, believing in the Bible seems contradictory.

armagecko
armagecko

I don't know who this Vito Cammissano character is. Judging by the fact that Peter King can't write five words without mentioning Michael Sam, I thought for sure that he and Sam must be a couple... 


Also, while I'm poking at Peter (don't get jealous, Michael), the fact that Greg Hardy has 25-30 guns is as irrelevant as the fact that Peter King stocks 30 beers in his fridge. Owning a gun doesn't mean that you will use it to harm anyone any more than owning 30 beers means that you will get drunk and smack your wife around. Hard for you to comprehend, I'm sure, but owning a gun (or 25-30) is perfectly legal in the Carolinas. Some folks drink beer, some folks shoot guns. Both folks can commit an act of violence on occasion, but I don't think you want the police to regulate your beer collection. So, Gettleman can do his due diligence regarding Hardy's gun collection, but if he's smart (yeah, I know he's from Boston; it's called an oxymoron), he'll recognize the legal authority of the 2nd Amendment. If not, Dallas can use Hardy. Shoot, they'll even buy him bigger guns.


Add in his derision of Milan Lucic saying, "I'm gonna kill you next year" after an important game, and one begins to wonder if Peter King has ever played a sport in his life. Heck, I'm wondering if King had an inguinal orchiectomy at an early age. I've heard your testosterone levels drop after 40, but should it really be totally depleted by age 56?! This is info that Michael really needs to know, Pete, before things get serious between you two....

JimKirkwood1
JimKirkwood1

Seems like just yesterday people were giving Mante Te'o (sp) a lot of grief

scotto80
scotto80

“I think it’s very contradictory, and I’m someone who supported Michael Sam and understood the importance of his involvement in professional football; but he has certainly called into question to me everything about him, including what we saw on draft day,” he said. “Everything seems orchestrated now. We didn’t know that there was a documentary TV show already in the process of being filmed and now we do. Now we judge everything in that light and we have to wonder, was it genuine emotion? Or is this a part of a reality TV show?”


The above comment was made by Jason Whitlock of ESPN so you can forward your bigot and racist accusations to him. Peter made a very big deal about the televised moment of Sam's selection suggesting it would be shown over and over as seminal moment in sports and societal history. Despite the "documentary" tag, Sam was making reality TV for the OWN network and as everyone should know by now reality TV can be as scripted and rehearsed as any other TV show. Sam has the absolute right to be who he is and be proud of it..but his clandestine dealings with OWN paint him as a bit of  charlatan

Fingernail
Fingernail

"It would be compelling to see Sam at home with his boyfriend..."


Shiver.


I gotta say, for the most part I've always been ok with gay people. I've hung out with them, worked with them, even danced at a gay club once just for the heck of it. No big deal. Whatever. So, in the wake of this whole Michael Sam love fest, I found myself reflecting back on the moment where I watched Sam breaking down in a gush of sobs as he learned he would be a Ram, and his boyfriend rubbing his arm and his back affectionately, and, after ending the call, Sam kissing his boyfriend.


It was a beautiful moment. I was touched. But in reflecting back I was also confronted by another emotion that I had apparently brushed aside: Ewww.


I get it. Gay people are people just like heterosexual people are people. We're all human. And would that we all were better about "live and let live". Anyone should have the freedom to experience love.


But it will NEVER be normal.

gravedigger187_1974
gravedigger187_1974

Furthermore don jones had to attend educational training. That is a 700 dollar word for brainwashing.

gravedigger187_1974
gravedigger187_1974

Peter, I think it was an absolute travesty that Don Jones got suspended for hi tweets on The micheal Sam incident. He is in entitled to his opinion and should not come with reprocussions. The NFL was wrong and roger goodell should be ashamed for succumbing To peer pressure. He is a coward. Whether it was micheal Sam and Vito or AJ Mccarron and that reality series moron he kissed. I tuned in to watch the NFL draft not a damn daytime soap opera. ESPN should be ashamed of themselves for the intentional pause when it was learned who the pick would be and cut to it.

Kevin1
Kevin1

Lifelong nonsmoker here...I love breathing smokefree air...But seriously...Dude, you're in BAR. Get over yourself. People drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes in those places.

GiovaniSmith
GiovaniSmith

So much for the standard of university education these days (even if the subject is "Speech Communication"). 


Peyton Manning actually believes in the story of Noah's Ark!?!


What a buffoon...

GiovaniSmith
GiovaniSmith

Wilf? 


Doesn't Wilf mean something naughty?

CeRAMicRAMekin
CeRAMicRAMekin

I doubt seriously that Eugene Sims, backup DE for the Rams has anything to worry about in making this roster. So that makes 4 must keeps IMO. Going to be a tough nut to crack for Sam. 

ShaneLeonard
ShaneLeonard

I think its hilarious how all the sports writers and NFL are tip toeing around this Michael Sam issue, King included.  I am skeptical if very few are really saying what they are truly feeling out of pure fear of being ostracized.  This has so little to do with football, and everything to do with sensational media, and a ridiculous amount of political correctness.

kenc29
kenc29

"So I’ve been working a bit with a nutritionist, and after studying my diet (or lack thereof), she said, “No more lattes.” The horror! We reached a bit of a truce there. I shan’t give up my favorite warm beverage, but I think I can handle three a week, with brewed Italian roast the rest of the time. We’ll see."


What?!? For what reason?

TomHaxby
TomHaxby

O.K. so I get it Michael Sam is queer. Can I call him queer in this era of PC? Do queers get their own showers in the NFL?  Don't really care about him or the story. Quite frankly,  tired of it like many people.

YuSuk
YuSuk

Bummer that people can still smoke in bars!? Are you freaking serious? ..That should be the proprietors CHOICE! Some places would allow smoking and other places would not allow it. Why can't both sides be happy? Its ridiculous that non-smokers just get their way without any public vote. I thought America was a democracy...It's only smoke, get over it you freakin' cry-babies!

FranklinMint
FranklinMint

I love PFF, but I don't think the article sheds much light on the best CB in football debate at all. If Sherman's not going up against the best, then he can't be called the best. You can speculate that he might be the best, but until he's tested on a regular basis, it can't be stated definitively. 

weir6
weir6

Michael Sam: WHO CARES?  Why is this such a big deal?  If someone says something on the field to him, are they going to be fined?  It's about football, not the player's sexuality.  So tired of hearing about him

sjq294
sjq294

Drink coffee like a man, Mr. King.

EdwardWhitelock
EdwardWhitelock

Mr. King, I have been a regular reader of your column for over ten years, and the thing that keeps drawing me back to your work as a writer is the heart you put into it.  You care about bigger things than the game you're describing.  You strike me as a "people writer" more so than a "sports writer" and I hope you take that as the compliment it is meant to be.  


But I have to say that this sentence, coming from you, really threw me: "He didn’t get a pass-rusher until pick 139, in the fourth round: Notre Dame outside linebacker Prince Shembo,whose career was clouded by an encounter with a girl he met at Notre Dame who later killed herself."  


Your phrasing diminishes the seriousness of the allegations, and I say this from a perspective that is not intending to condemn Mr. Shembo as guilty without charge or trial.  Really, I'm not responding as a back-seat lawyer; I'm responding as a fellow writer. 


I understand the need to be neutral and objective.  I do think, though, that your choice of the phrase "encounter with a girl" glosses over the seriousness of the situation.  In the least, it leaves you open to being yourself accused of brushing off what is a serious issue in collegiate sports: sexual abuse and a culture of violence against women.

As a longtime reader, I am confident that this was not your intention.  At least, I hope not.

liquidmuse3
liquidmuse3

@armagecko  Easy on the Michael Sam talk, man. I dunno if you're just critiquing Peter (hell yeah, please do that), but Michael Sam was a tough hombre in the SEC, so I'm not sure bagging on him in a seeming "toughness spectrum" is a good bet (again, I don't know where you were going with it). Plus, what's more physically imposing in the bedroom, a dude or a chick? Gay dudes as "soft" always strikes me as a naive stereotype.


And I support your gun treatise, but a beer has no ability to kill someone. A beer + a car, perhaps. But a gun, by itself, can kill. I guess you're making the argument that if you add an a**hole to either, bad things can happen...but a bad person + beer, vs. a bad person + beer + guns? Clearly, guns are more dangerous (I can't believe I have to even say that).

usameos6
usameos6

@scotto80  I was listening to Tom Nalen here in Denver talking about this as well and his comment was that if he was in training camp with Michael Sam and this film crew that he wouldn't go anywhere near him as he would be afraid that anything he said would have the possibility of being taken out of context and used against him in the media.  He felt like it would be more honest if he wanted to document this situation that he would have been better off just going to camp like a regular rookie and writing about his experiences later instead as this won't cause the sort of 'observer effect' where the presence of the film crew fundamentally changes his camp experience.

Translucent
Translucent

@Fingernail  Who's to define what is "normal"? And who cares whether the behavior is "normal" anyway?

Mike26
Mike26

@Kevin1  Not in most major cities - which is where PK clearly spends most of his time and believes everyone else should behave as city folks do, because he comes across as very condescending in his words.



However, I agree with the point about smoking - it's been proven to have no positive purpose in public restaurants, bars and other establishments, and the addition of public parks has been a positive development as well.

drudown
drudown

@ShaneLeonard  


Actually, it is very much about what pre-W America used to be about: protecting individual liberties, celebrating individual expression and having a system of government for the People, by the People that respectfully takes no position on gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, et al.


Lo and behold, the "new" GOP has eroded our Nation's freedoms in the following order: (1) by creating "figurehead" politicians like Reagan that don't actually lead- they just sell snake oil agendas like "no new taxes, ever" which foreseeably weakens the State; (2) "deregulating" the Media by "killing the Fairness Act" under the Reagan Administration now made "news" subjective- that is, "for sale" instead of simply reporting on the Public Interest; (3) by inculcating this fabricated "hyper-partisanship"- it provides Congress with a much more convenient "excuse" to not enact laws in the Public Interest- even "gifting" wholly unprecedented "blanket immunities" (see, "Halliburton Loophole") that turns Due Process, common sense and the Common Law on its head; (4) finally, of course, there is the outright GOP "contempt" for government, the Police Power of the Several States and rule of law. 


You want make an "issue" of Americans celebrating liberty. 


I take issue with your contrived lip service to Freedom. 


You are as phony as the GOP's "Climate Change" denials in consideration of super-PAC bribes.


"After the event, even the fool is wise." - Viscount Symonds


Our Congress is on the take and not raising revenue necessary to meet tomorrow's challenges. If it doesn't want to, say, collect Federal Income tax from the NFL and other Corporations- then reogranize the debt with the EU and Russia- not rattle sabers for more useless military occupations that serve the Corporations you REFUSE to TAX in violation of the Constitution your "paid for" Faux News "contributors" invoke. 


Enough lies and smoggy skies to make the People choke.


"You mean, like Nate Kaeding in the playoffs against my team?" - Rex Ryan


Damn you, Noodle Leg.

JohnSmith25
JohnSmith25

@ShaneLeonard You are so certain that everyone is as bigoted as you but are just being politically correct.  How convenient.  The truth is that the whole reason Sam's sexuality is a story is because of the "sensational media."  The players don't care.  Sam's teammates in college didn't care.  The world has passed you by and you don't even know it.

grstallions87
grstallions87

@ShaneLeonard  You are correct, but its what society is all about, in sticking with the subject but in another area, a tv channel cancelled a flip this house kind of show because they are known to be CXhristians but praised the show that had 2 gay guys.  This is what society and sports has become, go with the hot topic even if it has nothing to do with the person's profession.  This stuff has been going on since Political Correctness came along in 1992

blynder
blynder

@TomHaxby  

Call people what they want to be called.  Seems simple enough.  

Their "own showers"?  I get you are tired of it; I really do - and some people still like the story and think has relevance to their lives.  We all gotta live here so, maybe you should employ the skip over technique. :)

Mike26
Mike26

You must be country folk with that kinda attitude mister!

salvaje50
salvaje50

@YuSuk it's only tar in your lungs that makes them look like old prunes

BillKeating
BillKeating

@weir6 It's not about football or the player's sexuality. This is political correctness. This is the media playing their favorite game of finding some celebrity or athlete saying something about a minority that most Americans would supposedly find offensive and then hounding that man (it's rarely a woman and usually a white man) until he is broken.


The minority can be African Americans, Native Americans, women (yeah they are a minority for the purpose of political correctness), Jews, (the race, not the religion. It's ok to slur religions. See the hit Broadway musical "Book of Mormon".)  The media reduced the 80 year old owner of the Clippers to a blubbering baby when they caught him on tape demeaning blacks. The got old CBS NFL pre-game show game picker Jimmy the Greek fired and on his way to an early grave for getting on tape, after he had been drinking, the "very controversial" statement that blacks were better athletes than whites. He added that he thought this was due to the way that they had been bred to be good slaves. You don't see where either statement is not at least debatable? Sorry for you.


In the end they will get Dan Snyder, too. Their pressure is relentless, and they are helped by some well known sports writers who want to be at least footnotes when the greatest book of civil rights history is published someday. Few sane people in the country really believe that Native Americans are offended by the Washington nickname of "Redskins." But to the media it's "Off with his head! and they can mount another scalp on their office walls." You say that the Native Americans are really concerned about their appalling unemployment rate? Sorry, the media isn't interested in anything that dreary. You ask "Where is freedom of speech and freedom of expression." No, those rights are only secured for political critics. So be wise and don't be caught saying anything that the media can hold against you. Like this comment.

justwanderin
justwanderin

@weir6  It's not a big deal, but King and his ilk have an agenda to push

blynder
blynder

@weir6  

You don't think it is a big deal, others do.  It'll die down in a  few weeks - that's the new cycle.

davidhd
davidhd

Me too, but the story will come to a "tragic" end in a few months when the Rams realize they have several great defensive ends, and that Sam isn't one of them.

armagecko
armagecko

@liquidmuse3 Advice #1: If you ever find yourself tempted to use the phrase "I dunno," it's usually best to shut the fruck up. As Mr. Twain implied, better to keep your mouth shut than to open it and prove you're an idiot. 


Advice #2: If you're the least bit confused about my comments, read them again. It's not really that difficult, assuming you have an 8th grade education. However, given your comment that "a gun, by itself, can kill," I think the 8th grade might be too much of an assumption on my part. For the record, a gun by itself cannot kill anything... this side of the Twilight Zone anyway. Also, if you don't know any "soft gay dudes," then you have lived a VERY sheltered existence (and you clearly don't own a TV). 


Advice #3: Stop taking everything so literally. Do you have Asperger's? No, I'm serious, dude. You need to get a check-up. If you're having trouble understanding my post and Peyton's graduation comments, you quite possibly may need medication. Or, maybe the cops simply need to confiscate your beer collection. Should you have any other comments, please review Advice #1.


craigory
craigory

@Translucent @Fingernail How about defining normal by looking at human biology?  Anyone who took a high school health class can tell you that a male's genitalia is compatible with a female's, not another male's. 

"Who cares whether the behavior is normal"?  There are very good reasons not to encourage abnormal behavior.  I don't even know where to start with that one.

Buck2185
Buck2185

@Mike26 @Kevin1 PK believes you should drink yuppie beer, have Sam htting you from behind and at the same time have a mouthful of Patriot....

Translucent
Translucent

@Mike26 @Kevin1  ..."proven to have no positive purpose in public restaurants, bars and other establishments,..."


1) I'd guess that bar owners who like serving the legion of drinking smokers consider allowing smoking to be a "positive."


2) Does something have to be "proven ... positive" to be allowed in public? Karioke bars will be in trouble...

Bongo
Bongo

@JohnSmith25 @ShaneLeonard:  While I agree that Sam is getting a lot of attention and the story has already worn thin until we get to see what happens in training camp - as have most beat-to-death stories at this time of the NFL calendar - but the reason he's getting so much attention is because it's a pretty big deal.  


You may not agree with his sexuality, but the whole point is that it shouldn't matter.  And by the reactions of many people, it still does matter to them.  Sam obviously wanted to be himself and not live in fear of someone "outing" him.  He gets to do that.  Now let's see if he makes the team.  


And no, I don't believe any NFL team will keep a player who they don't need.  The NFL is a HUGE business, and they can weather some criticism if Sam is cut.  There is no PC subplot to ensure that Sam makes the team.  That would be very bad business. 

JohnSmith25
JohnSmith25

@grstallions87 @ShaneLeonard What a load of tripe.  Cable networks choosing not to associate their brand with people who have odious views is not political correctness.  It's capitalism.  

usameos6
usameos6

@blynder @TomHaxby  I've been inside the Broncos locker room and the days of the giant mass shower are long past - now there are private showers for everyone, dressing areas, etc. etc. etc.  I find it pretty funny that people tend to fixate on showers ....

YuSuk
YuSuk

Not if you're not smoking :) --Are you one of those people that wants to live to be 100? My grandpa did and he smoked for over 70 years. By 95 he had seen all of his good friends pass and couldn't understand why people had to live so long. Something has to kill ya... Lung cancer didn't kill him either btw. Second hand smoke certainly won't hurt anyone, people who don't smoke get lung cancer. The "truth" campaign of course lumps those numbers into their statistics... People need to relax on smokers, they're people too. They make choices just like everybody else

BillKeating
BillKeating

@weir6 I should add that men can say things disgusting and shameful. I'm thinking of the day after the 1986 Challenger space shuttle explosion that killed civilian teacher Christa McAuliffe. Out at lunch the next day with a pretty large group of young engineers that I worked with, I was incredulous to hear them making dead teacher in space jokes. But I believe the media would not mobilize for war if a civil rights victim was not the subject.

blynder
blynder

@justwanderin

Ha... what is that agenda again? Where is it written down?  Who agreed on this agenda?  One could say that everyone has an agenda to push, even/especially those who claim that others are pushing an agenda.  

It's agenda pushing.  

"How come PK gets to have an agenda?  Soon everyone will have an agenda - it'll be anarchy" - Random Reference Machine is ONLINE and functioning at 8.9 percent...

Bongo
Bongo

@YuSuk :  Second hand smoke isn't harmful?  You really believe that?  It's SMOKE!  The cigarette does not magically decide whose lungs to invade.   So you think parents who smoke with kids in the car are not harming their kids?


Sorry, it doesn't work that way, regardless of whatever conclusions you want to draw from your grandpa.  FYI:  one of my grandpas lived to be 96 and smoked cigars and drank whiskey on a daily basis.  But I also had an uncle who died at 60 from lung cancer after smoking for many years, and after having quite for the last 10 years of his life.

CMFJ
CMFJ

@YuSuk  


Great for your grandfather that he was one of the 25% of smokers that did not die of a smoking related illness.  I suppose you are too old to learn that anecdotal evidence is not meaningful.


Here's an idea for you.  Find someone whose mother, father, sister, or brother has died of lung cancer and tell them "Something has to kill ya."  That should work out well for you.


"Second hand smoke certainly won't hurt anyone, people who don't smoke get lung cancer."


First, that fact that non-smokers get lung cancer has absolutely no bearing on whether second hand smoke can hurt you.  Zero.  Second, actual epidemiological data says you are wrong.  Of course, you probably won't believe that.  Your inability to reason, understand causation, or even use common sense if obviously irreversibly impaired.

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