Rob Tringali/Getty Images
Rob Tringali/Getty Images

Early Test for NFL’s New Domestic Violence Policy

49ers DT Ray McDonald's weekend arrest came two days after Roger Goodell established a six-game ban for first-time offenses. What happens next? Plus, examining Alex Smith's extension, the lack of surprises on cutdown day and more

Much to address this morning, three days out from the NFL’s 95th season. I was planning to address the Roger Goodell about-face on domestic violence later in the column, but the Ray McDonald arrest at 3 a.m. Sunday in San Jose, and the 49ers defensive tackle being charged with felony domestic violence, changed all that. So this bit of inside-MMQB for those waiting for my piece on Green Bay GM Ted Thompson: We’re going to run it Wednesday here at The MMQB, when we can give it proper treatment the day before the season. Today’s budget:

  • An early test for the new Roger Goodell policy on domestic violence.
  • Alex Smith gets what he deserves, a new four-year contract that doesn’t overpay him.
  • Theorizing why Michael Sam was still unemployed as of midnight.
  • A body double made Champ Bailey outdated.
  • A relatively boring cutdown weekend, if you ask me. (Even if you ask one veteran NFL personnel man. “Man, that waiver wire sucked this weekend,’’ he said Sunday.)
  • The Browns lead the league in something, anyway. (Defensive backs.)
  • Seattle is shallow on the offensive line, and an interesting punt-returner call by Pete Carroll.
  • Story of the weekend not named Michael Sam: Ben Garland. (Go ahead. Search him.)
  • I talk to Logan Mankins. He doesn’t sound bitter, but how can he not be?
  • Why you want Bill Vinovich or Craig Wrolstad to be the ref at your team’s game this weekend.

On with the show.

NFL KICKOFF: The MMQB writers preview the 2014 season in our predictions extravaganza

* * *

Roger Goodell and the league came under fire for giving a two-game suspension to a player who had an altercation with his fiancee. (David Goldman/AP)
Roger Goodell came under fire this summer after giving a two-game suspension to a player who had a domestic violence incident. (David Goldman/AP)

News item: Goodell toughens NFL’s domestic violence policy.
Newsier item: Forty-Niner tests it immediately.

San Jose police responded to a complaint early Sunday morning involving San Francisco defensive tackle Ray McDonald and a woman that NBC Bay Area reported is pregnant. She had bruises on her neck and arms, the Sacramento Bee reported, and McDonald was jailed on suspicion of felony domestic violence charges. He was released later in the morning on $25,000 bond and ordered to appear in court Sept. 15.

“Felony domestic violence is a serious charge in any jurisdiction,” said Kim Gandy, president and CEO of the National Network to End Domestic Violence, in a phone interview Sunday afternoon, hearing the news for the first time. “The fact that they are discussing this as a felony says to me the law-enforcement investigators believe it is serious. I expect the commissioner to respond definitively and assertively.”

Gandy was one of six national authorities on domestic violence who helped Goodell shape his decisive new policy, first in a lengthy phone call in mid-August and then in a meeting at the league offices in Manhattan on Aug. 21. The MMQB has talked to three of the outside experts called on by Goodell, and all were encouraged by the tougher policy on domestic violence laid out by Goodell: a six-game ban for a first offense (though with some wiggle room for “mitigating factors”), and a year-to-lifetime ban for a repeat offender.

Then came the McDonald news, disappointing for the substance and stunning in its timeliness.

“We are looking into it,” league spokesman Greg Aiello said Sunday. That was the only statement—but it seemed clear that the league may not wait for final court adjudication in the case. Goodell’s letter to the owners Thursday addressing the new policy said the policy is “effective immediately” and the urgency of the issue could push the NFL to act sooner than the courts. The league’s Personal Conduct Policy opens the possibility for discipline before the courts rule if Goodell feels there is an “immediate and substantial risk to the integrity and reputation of the NFL.”

I think it is probably a good thing for a policy to be tested quickly,” says Kim Gandy, “to see if the policy works the way it was meant.

“The [domestic violence] policy is going to be tested quickly,” said Gandy, a veteran of the fight to end domestic abuse. “I think it is probably a good thing for a policy to be tested quickly, to see if the policy works the way it was meant to work. I am very sorry to hear this news, but it is a reminder how frequent and common domestic violence in this country is, unfortunately. I believe the commissioner will say, ‘This is our policy and we are going to stand behind it and implement it fairly.’ My experience with him is that he will be fair and even-handed.”

But the news about McDonald, a valuable starter on the San Francisco defensive front seven already coping with the nine-game suspension to its best pass-rusher, Aldon Smith, and knowing the team could be without rehabbing star linebacker NaVorro Bowman until midseason, could not come at a worse time. Being in trouble with the law is one thing. But coach Jim Harbaugh has been open with his players about seeing red over domestic violence. The Niners were mostly mum Sunday about the incident, but it will be interesting to see if the Niners act on McDonald once all the facts are in before the commissioner does.

If McDonald did indeed lay his hands on a woman in the tenor of these times, he has just made the biggest mistake of his career—and at just about the worst time possible. Goodell obviously views this issue as one the NFL has to take a lead role. On Thursday—with Russian troops pouring into Ukraine, with a presidential news conference that day discussing crises in Iraq and Syria, with ISIS creating an international scare, with a cease-fire in Gaza holding perilously, with Ferguson, Mo., still simmering—NBC led “The NBC Nightly News” with Goodell’s re-write of the domestic violence policy.

The MMQB on Ray Rice
Peter King, Andrew Brandt and others on the fallout of the Ravens RB's suspension. FULL ARCHIVE
What was so impactful to Goodell and to those in the league who worked on this issue was the staying power of the outrage after the commissioner suspended Ray Rice of the Ravens just two games for an incident in which his then-fiancée was knocked unconscious in an altercation with Rice in February. Five days after the Rice decision, CNN led its morning newscast with a panel ripping the league over the light sentence. Five days. In his letter to owners last week, Goodell recognized the outcry, and the league’s role in society that he underestimated. Goodell wrote: “The public response reinforced my belief that the NFL is held to a higher standard, and properly so. Much of the criticism stemmed from a fundamental recognition that the NFL is a leader, that we do stand for important values, and that we can project those values in ways that have a positive impact beyond professional football. We embrace this role and the responsibility that comes with it.”

In his early fact-finding, Goodell talked to experts inside and outside his office—mostly outside. “When we talked,” said Gandy, “he said, basically, that he wanted to educate himself. He was genuine in wanting to understand the causes and wanting to know the best role for the league. At one point, we were talking about law enforcement, and he said to me, ‘Why isn’t everyone angry at the judge and the prosecutor in the Rice case? We actually did something, rather than nothing.’ I said, ‘These are your fans who are angry. They are not fans of the judge and the prosecutor.'”

The three advocates interviewed by The MMQB were pleased with what the NFL did last week, but clear they will be watching to see how the league implements its discipline and outreach programs. “If they address domestic violence at the level they are capable of, it can be game changing,” said Rita Smith of the group Violence Against Woman. She was in the meeting with the league Aug. 21. “I feel pretty strongly, as of right now, that Commissioner Goodell and the NFL are committed to this. I believed they listened to us and took our advice with weight. It took a while, and a lot of outward pressure, but we are here. They need to follow through. So I hope I feel as good about it in six months, or a year. If I don’t, I have no problem applying a little more pressure. That’s what it took to get them here.”

Said Esta Soler, president of Futures Without Violence: “At the end of the day, the letter the commissioner released is a very strong letter. But the work now begins. That was just a letter. That was day one. Now the commitment of resources and time is how we will evaluate how committed the NFL is to this issue. We certainly applaud the NFL for the letter, and for increasing the penalty and laying out a program. Now they have to do the program. And they need to see it through. The letter is a strong letter. And it goes beyond just the penalty, which is a good thing. Because that’s how you change culture and that’s how you change behavior. We get that. But now a serious commitment to time and resources has to accompany that outline.”

At one point, Goodell said to me, ‘Why isn’t everyone angry at the judge and the prosecutor in the Rice case?'” Gandy says. “I said, ‘These are your fans who are angry. They are not fans of the judge and the prosecutor.’

One more point. One of the late additions to the letter Goodell sent to owners was trying to leave the league some flexibility on a hard-and-fast six-game ban for first offenses. Aggravating factors—assaulting a pregnant woman, for instance—could make the sanction harsher. But there also is no guarantee that the ban could be as long as six games. Read the letter:

“Effective immediately, violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to a suspension without pay of six games for a first offense, with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension when circumstances warrant. Among the circumstances that would merit a more severe penalty would be a prior incident before joining the NFL, or violence involving a weapon, choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in the presence of a child.”

So I think any confirmed assault will merit more than two games, but there’s no guarantee every one will be at least six. “We were clear in our meeting with the commissioner: One size doesn’t fit all, and one size rarely fits all,” said Gandy. “We recognize there are greatly different levels of violence.”

We’ll see how steadfast the league is on the issue, both in discipline and education, but last Thursday was a start. The McDonald case tests it immediately. “Movements are made of moments,” said Soler, “and this is a moment.” It won’t take long to find out if the movement is working.

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320 comments
FrankJohnson3
FrankJohnson3

I have a simple question: If the circumstances were unclear after the 1st video of Rice pulling his fiance out of the elevator, what were the other possibilities, other than he had knocked her out. If she passed out after drinking or slipped and fell after drinking, why suspend him at all. If ????? well other than him knocking her out, I give up. It was the outrage after the 2nd video that resulted in the additional punishment. People more enraged by the 2nd video are as bad as Goodell - why the 2nd video not the first? Does he deserve punishment? Yes. Was 2 games too light? Yes. The outrage caused a change in the rules and a good one. However, to change his punishment with no new evidence (it was obvious he knocked her out), just a more upsetting view of the same evidence is wrong and it was done for the wrong reasons.The punishment was too light too keep Rice in the game and revenues for the team & NFL up. The increase was done for the exact same reasons. The NFL, the people trying to reduce domestic violence, and really everyone should ask what policy will really do this? Will a wife that is a victim in the future not come forward about abuse if she sees her husband or future husband losing millions, due to gut reactions by the NFL, which will also cost her millions as his wife hesitate to report abuse. Would not a punishment plan designed to offer the abuser an incentive to change be a better alternative? I do not propose a specific solution but I am sure one motivated by the NFL's gut reaction to public opinion that may effect revenue, instead of a solution motivated by a desire to solve the problem is probably not the best one. However, is the solution now in place for now.

Jim21
Jim21

PK is lining up his next man-crush in the NFL. It's currently Bill Belichik but he has Chip Kelly on the bench. So much love for a guy that hasn't done anything yet. 

Go Saints
Go Saints

I disagree with your comment that Mike "Will" Sam was the best name for a linebacker. Steve (and son Mike) Stonebreaker share that distinction.

RoyCrim
RoyCrim

in the tenor of these times" 

In the tenor of these times where commitment enables a cross section of our society to engage and impregnate their "Girlfriend" In the tenor of these times where as an employer I am expected to take a text from an employee's "Girlfriend " as the appropriate method of calling out and missing work.. In the tenor of these times where responsibility is always subjected to the review of the lie that always goes with the lack of integrity-- from the very top on down.. 

Peter has nailed it-- the Girlfriend who is carrying Mcdonald's child will certainly score if she took a couple of bruises --and Mcdonald may be free to continue his career if he can have his people craft a lie that says he did not-- Wow in the tenor of these times where we see lies from everyone-- Who cares what happens to either of these people??? Mcdonald's millions being fleeced by lawyers on both sides and his utility to the 49ers ...pretty much  all that anyone including Peter really care about. 

Shwump
Shwump

This won't be an early test. The NFL will find a glitch in their program and say that this guy didn't have enough time to learn the new rules so he does not fall under the new discipline. They thought just putting it out there that new suspensions are coming would cure the problem. What they don't realize is that once a thug always a thug. Not just black players but you will also see white players doing the same thing. Although the white players have been coached by white fathers as to how to get away with it most of the time. The NFL is a joke as far as caring about people. The care about one thing, the money. When the pressure was put on them after the Ray Rice incident then they suddenly changed the rules. Not because it was the right thing to do but because of the backlash from all the people who wrote to the NFL complaining. Goodell even admitted that when he introduced the policy. So we all know the truth. Follow the Money.

ianforbes
ianforbes

So, when will the great commish penalize Mr. Irsay? Just wondering. Likely never. Too many players who have smoked a couple skinnys to worry about. Rich, white drug users/traffickers that own a team are exempt.

HossStyle
HossStyle

MMQB Comments Haiku:


Idiots come out

Others try to educate

Steaming mound of crap

Mech
Mech

It seems in a way ironic that we need to repeat "lets wait for the facts".  The black community seems unwilling in cases like that in Ferguson and others to do that and the media fans the sentiment and creates an atmosphere of hysteria. I cannot make any sort of judgment on the little bit of information that has been released and I would expect no one else could either. What is so difficult about waiting until we hear the facts and not jumping to conclusions before hand. The media is the culprit here, it is their overwhelming desire to create a controversy and sell ads and newspapers that makes this difficult. This is no different then selling "racism" when they find a black/white issue, its just egregious and not professional in any way. Give the man his day in court before you make any judgements.

DavidHarte
DavidHarte

The Ray McDonald debate in the Bay Area is both disturbing and fascinating.  A number of writers and talking heads have already assumed the man's guilt, and the call for him to be suspended, or at least prevent from playing immediately grows louder by the day.


A couple of points about such reactions: the 49ers have allowed this teams reputation to be trashed in the last three years, and Trent Baalke is clearly the point man of the "just win, baby" philosophy that would have appalled Bill Walsh.  But Jed York owns this team, and Trent Baalke is his employee, not to mention a GM with a very brief record of success in the NFL.  This is not Bill Walsh.  And if Baalke has any sense of power in terms of setting public policy for the 49ers, that void that he sees himself filling is Jed York's doing.  York needs to be heard and he needs to speak at some length about what has happened to this team's reputation.


But another point seems to me far more important: none of us knows if Ray McDonald is guilty. To assume that he is guilty, as local writers Scott Ostler and Tim Kawakami are doing may sell papers, yet their logic is misguided and their facts are simply wrong.  This is not a clear cut case, at least not from the details that they themselves have reported.  By comparison, Aldon Smith drove into a tree. The photos of that incident left little doubt what about had happened (including Smith's pathetic, drunken mug shot).  In Ray McDonald's case, the situation is obviously far more complicated, and while he very well might be guilty--and I'd agree that without question he should be cut immediately if he is guilty, regardless of any impact on the roster or this team's success--it is fair to say the man just might be innocent. People do make up stories, make up charges, even key "facts" about how bruises happen, especially when they are angry; that scenario here is conceivable, and to emphasize the point seems important when the concept of due process is really the issue.

For me the question now is why so many writers believe it's acceptable to assume Ray McDonald is guilty? Is that stance in any way a moral high ground? And if you don't assume that fact, then why should McDonald be punished before the legal system judges him?

killer44
killer44

Jerra's mad.  Someone gonna get fired.

KeysSteven
KeysSteven

I only wish your "new policy (anti-Redskins)" faced as "stiff (a) test," from publishers, peers & public, Peter.

cornersss
cornersss

"“Effective immediately, violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to a suspension without pay of six games for a first offense"

I dont understand, what was the penalty before? If it was up to goodel then this measly 2 game suspension is on him,just like the big ben rape suspension.

GT500456
GT500456

I never read Peter King's column for the content, but only for the comments.

cornersss
cornersss

I still think its messed up rice STILL only gets 2 games. Big ben only gets a few games also, because the cops sucked in that case also. Why is the nfl blaming the cops when it doesnt matter?

Jason1988
Jason1988

Spend some more time up here in Portland, Mr. King. There are nine microbrews in the city alone, with more in the surrounding region. We love our beer, and I'm sure you will too. 

ghills
ghills

Today's column.


"Ticky tack": 9


Political correctness: 7.5

Wombat
Wombat

To those of you that are new here, (or for those that are just keeping score):


Complaints about political content by PK - 50000000

Complaints about complaints about political content by PK - 50000000000000000

Snarky coments between posters having to do with grammar, usage, spelling, or just plain stupidity - 9999999


I just can't leave you guys alone for a minute can I?


MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@Jim21  Then there's Jim21, who thinks he's an immortal because he can fart and sneeze at the same time.

AmishPacker
AmishPacker

@Shwump That's with any business. But if you read the responses of the 3 advocates Goodell brought in about domestic abuse, they all said they would be watching to see if the policy will be implemented and will speak out strongly against the NFL if it isn't. So I think it's very likely that you will see him hit with something more daunting than what Ray Rice got.

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@Mech  "The black community in Ferguson" didn't trust the cops to provide "the facts," and they have a multitude of damn good reasons for that mistrust.  No honest, intelligent observer can deny that.  You are a completely blind fool if you've been following this case and all of the information that has come out about Ferguson and its history and you still don't get it.


The protests have vastly increased the possibility of "the facts" coming out because the eyes of the nation are now on Ferguson.  The clowns pretending racism no longer exists deserve nothing but contempt.

usameos6
usameos6

@DavidHarte I think the factors that you pointed out in regards to the issues the rest of the team have had and the fact that this came directly after Goodell's release of a statement about needing to do more about domestic violence led to the perfect storm for the media to jump on the McDonald case.  

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@killer44  Jerra is the one who should be fired.  He seems no more competent than Donald Sterling at this point.

superquad168
superquad168

@KeysSteven The policy is tested every time he blogs. Look below; It still draws a crowd. If you wanted to make a point disappear and lower the amount of clicks.

ecp_unix
ecp_unix

@MichaelSmith2 I had to watch them beat KU a few years back. That's when I knew that I had just thrown my money away on season tickets

Mike26
Mike26

@Wombat 1.  Are those number of complaints or percentages

2.  Regardless of #1, commas would make reading your numbers much more efficient

3.  Only right-winger nutjobs like you would refuse to use commas....

Mike26
Mike26

@MoeLarryAndJesus @Mech So the rioting and looting against their friends and neighbors - the shop owners - was necessary too in order to get the facts out?  


Protests absolutely can work when done peacefully and with clear messages; what's happened in Ferguson goes far beyond that.

DavidHarte
DavidHarte

@usameos6 @DavidHarte


No doubt.  The timing is just unbelievable, all the more because McDonald has been considered one of the good guys on this team for years, and clearly an intelligent man.


If he did this, it's both appalling and bizarre.

Wombat
Wombat

@Mike26 @Wombat Lol! You are so right! I refuse to use commas any longer as the name comma is offensive to  commies everywhere!

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@Mike26 @MoeLarryAndJesus @Mech  I know that right-wing morons assume the protesters and the looters in Ferguson were one and the same, but of course that wasn't the case.  In reality many of the protesters tried to stop the looting.  Of course the Ferguson cops were engaged in multiple assaults on the peaceful protesters as well as the looters, so those cops are apparently right-wing morons themselves.


If no protests or looting had occurred the killing of Michael Brown would have been swept under the usual rug and you, Mikey, would have been perfectly happy about that.  You can pretend otherwise all you wish, but try to be honest with yourself for once in your life.  You don't care one bit about the constant police harassment that goes on in places like Ferguson, and you don't care how many unarmed black men are gunned down under suspicious circumstances by Officer Unfriendly.  You don't even care about a burned out Quik Mart all that much, but you'll pretend you do because it allows you to do what you do best - harrumph and feel good about how much better you are than "those people."

BushidoBrownsRevenge
BushidoBrownsRevenge

@Mike26 @MoeLarryAndJesus Mechowho said everyone was rioting? That vast majority were peacefully protesting. It was the police acting aggressive. And when you have a lawless town like Ferguson that's what happens

Bongo
Bongo

@DavidHarte @usameos6 :  Clearly the NFL and Goodell are in a tough spot here.  The timing of this puts the pressure on them for "action".


Now, the thing is, the NFL can't wait for the courts to do their business, as it's just too long of a timeframe.  The NFL will have to do their own fact finding and come to their own conclusions far before the courts.


Not an easy position.  McDonald should not be judged by the public and the media before he has his day in court (when has that EVER happened before?), but his employer certainly has the means to satisfy their own needs regarding his football status without waiting for the legal system.

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@MartyJenkins @Mike26 @Wombat  The nuts predominate on the right.  These teabaggers are just a bunch of twisted, ignorant lunatics I wouldn't trust to make a ham sandwich.  There is no comparable group on the left.

Mike26
Mike26

@MartyJenkins I was paraphrasing another "self-astute" poster here on the board - there wasn't any political seriousness to it.

blynder
blynder

@Wombat @Mike26

It's the Oxford comma Wombat; and we gave that up when we threw tea in the harbor and the use of the extra "u" in words - like harbour….

Wombat
Wombat

@BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26 @MoeLarryAndJesus It is a right to question any authority through peaceful protest in this country. The people of Ferguson did nothing wrong. Most of the looters and trouble makers were from outside of their community. Sadly, the troublemakers are the ones that make the nightly news... The facts will come out as they will. Has the media exacerbated the issue, perhaps. Does the community of Ferguson have a right to doubt the police investigation, yes. Is racism a part of the issue here, of course. The problem now is that there are too many people involved with too many differing agendas to allow the system to work properly so I doubt justice will ever be done. The media has their frenzy, the police will get their say, the looters have their day, but sadly; the people of Ferguson will not have anything solved. Until the problems causing issues like this to occur are addressed events like this will continue to occur. Ferguson is no different than any other town in the USA.

Wombat
Wombat

@MoeLarryAndJesus @MartyJenkins @Mike26 @Wombat Sadly Moe, education and sanity are not questioned when voting. Your vehemence against all things conservative, (even if justified), is just as damaging as the hard line zealotry of the Right. Yelling and name calling only blocks dialog... it isn't helping the situation. So, while I understand you are a believer in the Left's ideals you are not promoting their cause by your actions. Only through common goals and compromise will our country regain it's prominence. The current polarization and accompanying hatred is only exacerbating the problems. Remember, I have no dog in this race as I don't like either side. I am just hoping the two "sides" learn to talk to one another again so that we can move forward as a nation. Right now, the Left is no more willing to compromise than the Right and BOTH party's agenda are designed for the acquisition and retention of power only, not public service.

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@Wombat @BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26 @MoeLarryAndJesus  The hope for change in Ferguson lies with the ballot box.  The drooling fascists at Fox News were INCENSED that activists were setting up voter registration booths at the protest sites.  But if enough black voters show up at the polls they can get rid of that idiotic mayor and force some changes in what is clearly a police department filled with racist trash.

Bongo
Bongo

@Wombat @BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26 @MoeLarryAndJesus :  Not to mention the fact that there are stories from reporters who were just standing on the streets to cover the protests, and they were strong-armed by police and shot with rubber bullets - which can maim and kill.  A protest can become a riot very quickly if the authority's first reaction is to disperse the crowd with tear gas and blunt riot control ammunition.

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@Wombat @MoeLarryAndJesus @MartyJenkins @Mike26  Sorry, Womby, but you're just showing how uninformed you are.  The Dems compromised with the ACA, which was based on ideas formed by the right-wing Heritage Foundation and put into place (via compromise) by Willard Romney and Ted Kennedy in Massachusetts.  "Obamacare" is the very quintessence of compromise, but the GOP went bat-guano nuts over it because they hate Obama.  They hate it even more now because it's working so well.


The "both sides suck" idea is pushed by some media but it's lazy thinking that doesn't reflect current reality.  The GOP now sucks almost completely.  The Dems are way too cozy with Wall Street and the stupid War On Drugs, but they're not dominated by crazy morons from Texas.  The GOP is.

Wombat
Wombat

@MoeLarryAndJesus @Wombat @BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26 I agree that the ballot box is the most powerful tool here but it is slow and not always reliable. While I am not as convinced as you of the guilt of the Right and the purity of the Left, (I am much more inclined to believe that both are out for themselves and think nothing of the people the are supposed to serve), I do agree that the Ferguson police are a symptom of a major problem in our society... and cover-ups and attempts at repressing the press won't do them any favors.

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@Wombat @MoeLarryAndJesus @BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26  I've never said anything about the left being pure.  But the Dems are a centrist party these days - anyone who thinks Obama is a socialist is an ignorant whackjob - and the Republicans have been hijacked by their extreme right.


You can say both sides are the same and are self-serving, but there are 10 million+ people who have health care today despite the deranged Republican opposition to a plan that was originated by conservatives. 


And the ONLY people supporting the racist status quo in Ferguson are right-wingers.  I don't see how anyone could seriously argue otherwise.

Wombat
Wombat

@MoeLarryAndJesus @Wombat @BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26 You may be more optimistic than I Moe... I think the Dems got the ACA put in place to garner votes, not help people. I think the Repubs are tending right to pander to their base. No one is putting a platform together to help Americans. They only plan for what they can do to get them the most votes. Civil servants don't care anymore... except about power.

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@Wombat @MoeLarryAndJesus @BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26  Sorry, but helping 10+ million people is a real accomplishment and it seems to have hurt, not helped Dems electorally in the short run.  I suspect in the long run it will help them, but so what?  They deserve to be helped because they did the right thing, even if it didn't go far enough.


So you can say both sides are the same but one side has actually helped a huge number of people.  The other side seems to be interested only in tax cuts for millionaires.  Trickle-down economics is a failed dogma and only one party is still pushing it.

Wombat
Wombat

@MoeLarryAndJesus @Wombat @BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26 I'm glad you have something to believe in... I hope that they never let you down. I've just seen too much from both parties to believe in their altruism any longer... and failed dogma to one is gospel to another so regardless of the uselessness of our folks in Washington the polarization of the nation will continue... to our detriment... and until BOTH sides admit that they need to work together and compromise nothing of value will happen. Your zeal for your beliefs will just keep butting heads with the zeal from the other side... no one is 100% right or 100% wrong.

MoeLarryAndJesus
MoeLarryAndJesus

@Wombat @MoeLarryAndJesus @BushidoBrownsRevenge @Mike26  Womby, you're not listening.  I don't say the Dems are 100% right.  I don't even say the Repubs are 100% wrong, but they're sure coming close these days.  The Repubs reject altruism explicitly.  That's why Rand Paul and Paul Ryan worship Ayn Rand.


Obama kept offering compromises to the GOP and they kept spitting on him.  The way to force them to compromise is to defeat them over and over again at the polls until they regain their sanity as a party.  Or until their party dies and is replaced by a sane one.

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